Ecart Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Not a bad thing I guess. It's experience. Anyway, here's what I got and here's what I think happened. Over a period of a couple years I've been able to collect some logging cable from work. I've gotten my hands on some new and used 7/8" and some pretty rusted 1". During my last lay-off week - now two weeks ago- I started trying to weld up a piece of the 1" stuff. I don't have a way to melt over the ends because I don't have an oxy-acetelyne (sp) set up yet. So I welded both ends first, slapping the hot piece at a dull red on the anvil to knock out any loose junk inside. The welds came out nice and solid. I then started from one end. I heated until it was a dull red and fluxed with borax. Then it was back into the fire. I slowly brought it to a welding heat. At welding heat I twisted as far as I could. Then up to welding heat again and hammered it lightly a couple taps, then a 90 degree turn and a coupel more taps all the way around the piece. This is the way I welded all the way down the piece. I knew that some of the welds were not as solid as I would have liked but I planned on a second set of welding heats anyway. Yesterday I started on the second set of welds. I noticed that the piece was pretty spongy everywhere I hammered and the welds wouldn't take. Here's what I think I did wrong, or what went wrong. I didn't really want to take the cable apart and clean it in gas so I thought I would get away with just trying to beat out the gunk on the anvil. I think the dirt had something to do with the failure. Also, the cable is old and rusty. The reason it was thrown away is that it was partially burried and it broke when they tried to pull it up to use. So I'm wondering about the integrity of the fibers. The possible third reason is clinkers. There was a black junk that ran out of it a couple of times when I twisted. It hardened and was brittle whne I knocked it off with the hammer. But black isn't the usual color of clinkers in my experience (please correct me if I am wrong. After all that's why I'm posting. ). So last evening before I went in for the night, I took another piece of the cable and some of the new 7/8". I unwrapped both and threw them into some gasoline to soak overnight. I'll wire brush them today then move them around to make sure everything gets good and soaked. Has anyone tried to weld the individual bundles before they rewrap the cable? It was just a thought. I don't have a swage block to try the bottom v swage as JPH suggests. Anybody know a good way to get the gas off of the cable. I had a stupid run-in with gas and a burn barrel last year. I don't care for a repeat in my forge. Btw, you don't know how bad it hurt to pour gas into something besides a gas tank to be used for transporetation. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) I use Kerosene then TSP after that, as gas vapors tend to explode violently. let it air dry and hope its all gone, you will find out if it hasn't. Inclusions are anything in the weld zone that should not be there, remove it and try again. The black crud from what was a buried cable could be asphalt or some other protection, What did these look like when you took one apart to see what it was? You didnt post a picture of that is looked like before burning, so its hard to tell, as most things look black after being burnt in a forge. Edited June 14, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 I use Kerosene, as gas vapors tend to explode violently. let it air dry and hope its all gone, you will find out if it hasn't. Inclusions are anything in the weld zone that should not be there, remove it and try again. The black crud from what was a buried cable could be asphalt or some other protection, What did these look like when you took one apart to see what it was? You didnt post a picture of that is looked like before burning, so its hard to tell, as most things look black after being burnt in a forge. I thought about kerosene, but it would have been a further drive to get it. Though with the volatility of gas, the drive could be worth it. Considering there was nothing on the surface of the cable when I put it into the fire or took it out and that it seemed to come from within the cable when I twisted it, I'm thinking it was asphault. Since I had my computer in the shop, I have a hard time posting pics to the net, so I'll try to get it figured out and take pics from where the cable is now in the gas until it is forged into . . . something whether a knife or a mass of whatever. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 It sounds like you did everthing right, The only thing I can think of is all this talk of 'tapping' to set the welds is very subjective. Try hitting a lot harder, youve got to push all those fibers into each other at welding heat. Youve got somewhere around 10 seconds from the fire untill it to cold to weld properly (mass dependant). Look forward to seeing some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Once you have the ends welded, untwist a little , reheat wirebrush and twist again. You'll see if it isn't clean. In lieu of a swedgeblock, weld a piece of flat steel to the outside corner of a piece of angle. Chuck that into yer vise. Better than nothing. It almost sounds (to me) that you aren't getting enuff material hot at one time. I weld about 6-7 inches of cable at a time. Then overlap the weld. 6 inches then 5 inches making sure there is no soft spot in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Oh, just a thought, If your anvil has a step to the cutting shelf you could use that to forge 3 points on the cable at once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Thanks for the input guys. Yeah, I'm only heating a small area each time I place the piece into the forge. I need to heat more area and I want to make sure the next time that I have it hot enough - something I have thought about since I started this thread. John, you could be right about how hard I am hitting the cable. I was using a ball peined hammer of less than two pounds and not hitting really hard. I'll try my two-pounder and put some more force behind each blow. The two-pounder has a square face that will cover more of the work area. Bruce, I like the idea of untwisting a little to clean. Also I have plenty of angle laying around to make a swage from. I'll carry a bit of it to the shop at work and have some flat stock welded on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 After you've twisted a section 2 or 3 times, you should be able to feel it go solid. Then it's time to go to the anvil/swedge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 from my experience with cable its has been beneficial to unwind the 6 or 8 main strands and place in the fire and let it sit at a dull to mid red for a few minutes to burn out and paint or the thick grease type stuff i have came accross. then wire brush the crap out of it when it cools to get the scale off along with traces of anything else then put the wire back together and do as you did heat to red, brush and flux, then get to welding and set the welds. i have had pieces that no matter how clean i thought it was there was still something keeping it from welding. hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Thanks, I didn't get the opportunity to work on the cable today - chaparoning son's field trip and now it's raining. I hope to get to it tomorrow. I'll be rereading the thread and trying what I've read here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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