tiptop Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Hi All, First post since joining and a question. I am running a double burner forge on propane. It has the Ron Reil type burners. I built this forge three or so years ago and don't recall orafice size, maybe .035"; Any how I want to change from propane to natural gas and have heard I will need to change the jets. Does any one here know if they need to be smaller or larger and maybe by how much? Also, how does natural gas work? Is it as good as propane, better or worse? Thanks for your time,Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Natural gas normally uses larger. Also the gas lines for a normal residential service are only about 3psi. that's one reason most use propane rather than Natural gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Actually, residential gas lines are about three ounces of pressure -- a 6 inch water column at 0.433 psi/foot. Not effective for a forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiptop Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Thanks Steve and Jack, I had high hopes of it being of use. I put a 22' X 24' extension on my shop to move my blacksmith items, machinists tools and fabrication stuff into. While I was at it I ran four sticks of 2" conduit to the house so I could run utilities back and forth between the two. So Natural gas was one of my choices, for heat, as I put pex in the floor and I thought I could run the forge off of it also as it is cheaper than chasing down propane. In a couple of other posts the guys were talking BTU's required for a forge, I never really stopped to figure out that math, I just built the thing. I wonder if it would be worth while to talk to my buddy over at NW Natural Gas and see if they can turn up the pressure some? It just seemed to me that I had heard of folks using it for forges before. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 From my understanding- natural gas does not contain the same amount of BTU's propane does. Thats why they run a bigger orifice. What I have seen done effectivly is increase the volume (bigger pipe) of the natural gas and add a blower. I have worked in foundries with 2 1/2" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 the natural gas forges seem to use a blower rather than gas pressure to get things going.....i believe natural gas is 1000btu per cubic foot see for instance johnson gas appliances for nat gas forges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 A cubic foot of propane has nearly twice the energy of a cubic foot of natural gas - hence bigger orfices for NG. However natural gas is sold by the therm (100,000 BTU's or about 100 standard cubic feet), Propane sells by the gallon at almost a therm per gallon (90,000 BTU). In my area (approx $1,00/ per therm for NG and $2 to $3 per gallon for propane, depending on tank size) NG looks like a bargin. The problem is pressure and metering. The gas distribution system is under enough pressure for a forge, but the residential gas meters are designed for the reduced pressure. Even if you could get the gas company to deliver at the higher pressure (doubtful) you would need a second meter at a fixed cost of probably around $20/month. Probably not worth it for a one man shop. You could always check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torin Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I had a MifCo/McEnglvan crucible furnace that worked as a forge as well (2 side doors as well as the top crucible lid). I had no problem forge welding in it. It had a blower, and 3/8" orifices (4 of them). It ran on regular household line pressure for NG. In my area that was 7" WC. Just a data point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiptop Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Thanks all for the replies. It sounds to me as though I need to go talk to my plumber friend instead of my Natural gas friend. It sounds like it could work from what I am hearing here. I think the next hurdle will be in delivery of the gas. The forge is about 90 feet from the meter or where he would need to connect. My propane tanks are twenty pounders, one on line and one in reserve. I won't be doing anything for a while, so I'll collect some more info and post what I find out. I also have a crucible furnace that I run for small batches of aluminum castings. So I would want to change that over also. Thanks again, Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 How hot is steel when it falls off in the forge? - BladeForums.com Specs From Taylor Coleman . I'm a natural gas pipeline engineer with a chemical engineering degree, so at least I'm not a complete newbie to things of this nature. It is entirely possible to run a forge on house pressure NG. I just finished one this weekend that handily burnt a 1/2" O-1 drill rod in 5 minutes from a warm (refractory drying temp) start. How's that for hot? I have a 60cfm leaf blower for power, 1 1/4" burner body (no flare... it's not meant to burn outside the forge), 1 1/4" full port ball valve for air control, 1/2" full port ball valve for gas control, 1/2" gas line at 0.5psi. My forge is about 6" diameter inside and 18" long. It's lined with 2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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