aprayinbear Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Greetings everyone! I'm a newby here so all advice is much appreciated. Recently I put together a "Lively type" forge. Made a few bags of charcoal and put together my set-up in my back yard. Fired it up a few days ago and it worked great! Here's where I need your help...... I was given a piece of RRtrack to use as an anvil, but quickly saw its limits. So I've picked up a 4" x 4" x 12" bar of 4340 so I could fashion something similar to a Japanese sword makers anvil. Here's my question..... Will I need to heat treat the bar or will it be ok to work on cold? If I need to heat treat it what process would you suggest? My plan is to route out a channel in the center of a large stump I have and insert the bar. I think I'd even have space to attach a small vice to the side of the stump for easy access. What do you guys think? Happy Hammerin':D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 What are the limits of a piece of railway iron, with its numerous curves and flats, that a square bar doesn't have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aprayinbear Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 The biggest limit I can see, besides the badly corroded surface is that there is almost no flat surface on the rail road steel. Of course there are a lot of creative ways to re-work the piece, but it seems more trouble then the final product would be worth. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) aprayinbear, I would definatly HT. What kind of resources do you have? Coal forge, propane forge, large vertical tank for oil? If you do HT it, I'd just heat up the face, about 2-3" deep, do a dull cherry red (non-magnetic), and then quench in vertically in oil. Temper immediatly to either a dark gold to a light blue. Dark gold being harder, than light blue. This is justmy opinion, I have never HT an anvil, but will be this summer. Wait for someone who really knows what they are doing to answer this. Or go look up chuch robinson anvils, and send him an e-mail on how he does it. Edited March 31, 2009 by m_brothers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The biggest limit I can see, besides the badly corroded surface is that there is almost no flat surface on the rail road steel. Of course there are a lot of creative ways to re-work the piece, but it seems more trouble then the final product would be worth. If you mount it end-on, you get a flat surface sufficiently large enough for work over 2", plus convenient places to grind fullers, butchers etc. You also get a good amount of steel under the hammer so lb-for-lb it is probably more efficient than a London-pattern anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Yep. A rail anvil mounted the usual way is springy and inefficient. (It'll work, yes, but it's not ideal.) Mounting it on end makes it a whole different ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 i would think just mount it and hammer-even h/t ed anvils will wear after time. so you don't need to maybe "mess" it up trying to h/t and temper it, just my suggestion, good luck jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Test it with a file to see how hard it is first. You could set it up and use it and then if it's too soft heat treat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmagoolew Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 You can definately heat treat the steel. I have been a tool and die maker for over 30 years. While you may be able to heat treat it at home, I would tell you to take it to a heat treat shop. They will do a much better job, and you'll be able to work on all four sides if needed. It will take a lot of propane to get it up to the proper heat to harden, and you will also have to be able to hold that heat for a good while to soak to temperature. You will also have to hold the heat during the temper process. Going by memory, I think tempering should be done at about 500 degrees. But that has to be done at a constant 500, not in a kitchen oven or even a gas forge. They are not accurate enough, to my knowledge. You can probably look on the internet to get the exact heat treat spec for the hardness that you want if you want to try it yourself. You would probably need a large acetylene torch with a rosebud to even get it close to right. I worked with large ovens, so I really don't know for sure if it will work at home. Just my thoughts. Lew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 mrmagoolew is probably right about the heat treatment. I've always followed Alex Weygers remark to the effect that a well tied down rail road anvil works well. I have two rail road anvils that I still use for particular work. They both get tied down to planed, squared, and glued together 4x4's with 5/8 bolts. One I hard faced square and the other I ground square and heat treated per Alex Weygers suggestions. Both are very satisfactory anvils. I don't have anything against your heat treating the 4340. However, it is not a project for a beginner as mrmagoolew suggested. There is no particuliar reason not to use it as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I use a small piece of steel similiar in my sho for peining and just general cold work beating..it shows no wear after several years of use almost daily and it is as came not heat treated. Yes yours can be heat treated but you do not have the forge to do that in. There is just no way you can keep the temperatures at the right levels for the right length to do either the hardening or the tempering. Use it and enjoy, and hang on to the rr track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I'm using an anvil cut from 4" mild plate. No hard face, just mild plate. Yeah it will dent if I hit it with a hammer; I try to avoid that , but red steel won't phase it. If I do dent it, I get out the Lincoln and 7018, weld it up and grind it off; badda bing! Just my two cents. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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