Ellen Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 We had a nice fly press page going, and it may be lost, so we have an opportunity to get it going again. I have a number 5 Flypress, made in India, purchased from Amy Pieh at Pieh Tool Co, a wonderful supplier and a friend to all smiths, and have made a lot of tooling for it. If these photos aren't recovered and reposted in the gallery in the next few days, I will simply repost them; life goes on! Dr. Jim Hrisoulas just bought a #6 Flypress from Pieh Tool Co, appropriately named Augustus Squeezer, and like myself, he also purchased the excellent steel stand for the press that Amy carries. For those who do not know, a flypress has a 3 or 4 lead screw with a fast twist, such that one turn of the flywheel moves the ram an inch or more, and if the flywheel weighs 100# (which is what a #5 does), then the ram will be coming down with several tons of pressure. You can put patterns in cold steel, bend circles, do veining, wonderful decorative edges, and you can also work with hot steel. It's great for punching holes, fullering (like fullering a knife or a sword), and is a valuable addition to any shop. All questions and comments are welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Ellen: I see you already have the topic so let's just discuss this here... Ok I have to cobble up a way to hold the bottom tooling on my No. 6...Now the ram/adapter uses 1" dia round..I was thinking of using the same basic idea of a 1" dia hex bolt for the "die body" for the bottom dies as the top die uses.. Now I can see some difficulties in using the round stock as far as indexing goes but bu going round I will be able to use the same dies for the top and bottom so...Any suggestions??? Steel wise....I have S-7, H-13, D-2 and a whole lotta 1095, 9260, 5160 and 4140.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 Well I made a bolster plate with a hardy hole set on the diagonal, that way I can run longer work past the press's back casting. Works good for me, and then all of my anvil hardy tools fit. For top tool, I use 1" CR1018 (A36 is too big, won't fit), and I weld a 1" ID motor shaft collar to the 1018 to take the impact and not mushroom the 1" shaft, I also cut it so there is 1/4" of gap between the bottom of the ram hole and the end of the 1018, to be safe. I belt grind a flat on the 1018 shafting so the set screw locks it in place and also helps with the indexing. John Crouchet goes into this in detail on his excellent DVD, and we also spent a lot of time building tools in his 3 day class at Amy's. I came home with over 20 finished tools. I use S-7 for almost everything that will take impact in the flypress tooling; it is cheaper, works good in the forge, and I can heat treat it consistently with my simple shop tools. I like to have a half dozen 1" 1018 shafts welded up with motor shaft collars, ground flat on top....all welding is on the opposite site from where the tool will contact the ram.....and then I can just pick one up and make the tooling for it, weld in place, and I have a tool ready to go. I just bought a piece of scrap strap iron grating with 1" x 2" openings in it and my tooling will set in the grating so it's all in one place, I'll pick up a shop cart to put it on so I can roll it out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Jim---*patternwelded*---of course... Thomas pulling out his inflatable bunker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Thomas: Ha ha...you funny GI...not Pw..LAMINATED....big difference...you should know that!! Ellen: seems we are on the same page on the top tooling..it's the bottom tool holder that is stumping me..The rub is do I go with a hardy arrangement that I can use on my 550# anvil as well or do I go with the 1" round shaft that the ram/adaptor needs.. That's the fly(press) in the ointment. I can see both sides on this. Anyway I have a day or two before I need to make a final decision on this..it will take me that long to clean the place up and make it decent enough to work in again.... As it is I need several fullering sets, a couple of cutters and a few drifts and punches....that's a starting point. I am thinking maybe a few slitters as well...would make 'hawk making a whole lot easier. I can see all sorts of gabgets for this beast.... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Most folks say my humour is lame-inated. Could you make an adapter for your hardy hole to hold the 1" shank tooling? My 515# fisher has 1.5" hardy hole as does the trenton and the bridge anvil. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Thomas: On..as it is....the ram/adapter uses 1" dia round stock...the idfea of using a bottom plate with a "hardy hole" in it is appealing but there I will loose the ability to use any tooling I have made for the top/ram/adapter..and I can see where that ability could come in handy..but I would be able to use the bottom tooling on my anvil so....that's the predicament...I will come up with something in the next day or two I am sure... now I just got to get a deal on some 1" dia hex bolts...the local so called "hardware store" wants like 8 US dollars EACH...NO WAY... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 $8 each? Solid gold? I don't know what the price of 1 3/4" CR 1018 is since I buy it in 20' lengths, but suspect maybe 50 cents......the 1" ID motor shafts are a couple dollars each, from Fastenall, Grainger carries 'em but charge a mite more. Haven't checked MSC or McMaster Carr lately. Just degrease 'em in acetone or some such before welding. The hardy bolster plate has worked well for me, and is less fuss than working with round stock and shaft collars....1" sq. stock in 20' lengths is rather cheap as well. And it comes out shorter than if I were using a "top" tool in the bottom bolster, sometimes this is important. Bottom line, whatever works...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 Jim, if you look at the knife thread on your PW class, where you talk about possible deployment to border, it was pointed out that Thomas and I both live in states "on the border" and should it be AZ I am 150 miles from the border, with shop, guest room, shower, and the welcome sign would be out for you so you wouldn't have shop withdrawals. Your bride could come down and spend time with you as well, so it would be a home away from home. Fancy we're not, but hospitable we are....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Howdy!! On the hex bolts..I found a place on line that I can get 1" x 3" hex bolts for a whole lot less than $8.00 US EACH...These are UNplated carbon steel bolts and it comes out to $1.08 each in bozes of 25. I got two boxes coming in. On the border thing. IF I do go (which as I have been told by my bosses up in Carson City that I personally would NOT be due to the fact that in spite of what Chertoff says, Las Vegas is STILL a major target) I would be staying with my troops. I am not one of these officers that constantly says RHIP I am in the thick of it with those under my command. I do appreciate the offer but I will pass on that. Back to the "press"-ing subject.. Ok I have pretty much decided to do the round shafted bottom die for several reasons. I reralize that I will not be able to use these in my anvil but really is that such a great advantage?? The reason why I am going with the round shafting is simple..interchangability with the top dies and being able to adjust the angle of the die/work relationship within the press. I will see if my thinking is valid or if I need to redo this once the boltes get here Tuesday/Wednsday next week. The first couple of die sets will be fullers..as this is what I need most to get going. In the mean time I am going to cobble up the bottom die holder..there are several thoughts on how to do that as well...Just gotta find some 3/8" or better yet 1/2" boiler plate someplace. Las Vegas is great for a lot of things but finding raw materials is NOT one of them.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 Well, I understand and respect your decision to stay with your troops. You have just shown yourself to be a top quality professsional, in my book, but I wanted to make the offer. Nothing wrong with the round shafting for bottom tooling, heck it may even be better. I look forward to seeing how it all turns out. Let me know if there are any "missing" flypress and tooling photos from the gallery that you would like to see, and I will have them either up or emailed to you ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Ellen: Well I take care of my "kids"....I was enlisted for close to 10 years before I got my commission...someone ratted me out to Carson City....so I take care of my "guys"... Anyway on the tooling..I have the basic idea of what I wantt o make..boring out a 1" dia hole through the centre of some 2 1/2" round stock, dripp and tap a set screw hole and then weld that to the base plate. I am thinking of either 3/8" or 1/2" plate for the base... The "holder' I am thinking about 2" or so high.. From what I have been reading the more "ram" you have in the frame the sturdier these are, which makes sense.... So I am pondering this... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 I've used 3/8" plate for bolsters and it works fine, I just back it up, for example, around the square for the hardy hole. Use what you've got on hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Ellen: Since I don't have any plate the right size I have to scrounge some up someplace..shouldn't have too much of a bother with that I don't think but one never knows around here in Las Vegas... The more I think about this the more I am leaning towards 1/2"...a little more weight but hey, I'm tough... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 If I was scrounging from scratch I'd go with 1/2" plate as well; you know it is stronger and.....and......and..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 I tried to reload my flypress and tooling pictures but didn't have any luck; I'll try again later and seen what the problem is. I mean, they loaded fine just a few weeks ago, seems they should load fine now......must be operator error! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Ellen: Well I am making some calls tomorrow on the plate..see what I can scrounge up..All the other "parts" will be a breeze really.... It's not a difficult project...Just need to get it done.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 Jim, I have a dumb question and I hope this is a good day for dumb questions.....on wrapping a knife handle with twisted wire, do you have an online source for that twistedwire, be it brass or bronze on plain steel? I promise not to bug you again with any dumb questions for at least two weeks......grin! Thank you very much. Today will be the first billet welding, 8 pieces of 1018 8" long using your supersaturated liquid borax flux and powdered borax too. The nickle allows are still "in the mail". Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Sigh; now you tell me; there was a box of 1" bolts at the tech auction---about 200 pounds worth...probably went to the scrap dealer. I think that both Ellen and I were hoping that you would get *some* time off during deployment and could visit someplace close of more interest than the "border towns"... Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 I was just saying the welcome mat was out and the shop is there; the timing, if possible at all, is up to Jim. Same for you, you old horse thief you......grin! Sandpile said I should use terms of endearment like that to get on your "good" side, and I can trust him, right? He's been kinda quiet since I said maybe you could clean out his shop while I was in class and he was at the kinife show.....I told him you wouldn't charge over $50 for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Ellen: First off..as far as I am concerned...there is no such thing as a dumb question..cause if you don't know..you don't know..so never..ever be afraid of asking ANYTHING either on these foprums or of me personally...With that being said... On the twisted wire.. I have no clue at all is it is available in Fe or non Fe materials BUT it is in silver (sterling) but silver costs a whle lotta $$$. I simply twist and then anneal my own..takes only a lillte bit of time and I get the sizes and the amount of twist (as well as direction of the twist) that I want/need. Given the fact that I am pretty much out in the "barren wastes of Southern Nevada" I had to become even more self sufficient than I was when I was in Los Angeles. Man I miss rooting through the rem bins at Industrial Metals in Burbank...I could find some pretty spiffy stuff there!! Up here I ask for where the rem bins are and I get looked at like I had lobsters crawling out my ears or something.. So I have everything brought in by truck. Thomas: On the bolts..yeah that figures..they don't call me "Day Late and a Dollar Short" Hrisoulas for naught ya know..well they call me that and a few other things as well that I cannot repeat in a "family forum" such as this.... All in all...we are still waiting notification from carson City as to whether or not any of my units will be sent down south. News has come in that several Govenors of the affected States have decreed that this duty will be a "volunteer" assignment. Ie, if you WANT to go..you go..if you don't you stay home, at least as I understand it. So we are sitting here, waiting... Anyway..I have a benvh to finish up and then I get to move everything around and clean..Hopefully I will have everything done and ready to rock by wednsday so after my annual physical (Uncle Sugar demands one every year...yuck...) I will be back to work with a nice, clean studio... Made a few calls on the 1/2" plate....should have answers by COB today, so I was told.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 There's been some posts here and elsewhere on the virtures of using a 1" bolt cut off "short" and letting the head form the shoulder against the ram and welding the tool to it to get things rolling. That seems a fine technique to me. Others have mentioned simply chamfering the end of the shaft that goes in the ram hole and that will prevent upsetting a stuck tooling. I don't know enough about that one to venture an opinion, but I am sure some fine minds have studied it and it is o.k. I was taught by John Crouchet, a man with 30 years experience to use 1" CR1018 (sizes are tighter than A-36), cut it a 1/4" short, and weld a 1" ID motor shaft collar to the chamfered edge of the 1" shaft. I like that method becuase it is absolutely straight, the allen nut tightens the shaft down perfectly, and a couple of minutes of 6013 rod makes it all one piece; my 2" X 72" Grizzley makes all flat in a matter of monents, and it is all set to go. I make up these a half dozen in advance, and they work well for me. I cannot pass judgement on all the methods out there, I only describe what works for me, and what I choose to use. There is no right or wrong here. It is simply a matter of what works. God bless and may all your methods work flawlessly and give you hours of productive work and joy. Likewise, on the bottom tools I have chosen to make a bolster, and put in a hardy hole on a diagonal so long work has a place to go. This works fine for me, but there is no reason one could not use a round piece of shafting or bolt there as well. So there are lots of equally good ways to get this done, don't take my methods as being "true path" or whatever, cause they're just what works for me....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ellen: Ok..on the bottom plate..here's what I got figured out...using a piece of 1/2" plate with corresponding notches for the hold down bolts I am welding a piece of 2 1/2" round with a 1" hole bored through and welded into place. I am thinking a 5/16" set screw to hold the bottom die. The reason why I am going round is the fact that I can see several application where I will not want to attck at an angle, and me being the lazy olde fart that I am I don't want to make redundent tooling.... The bolts I ordered should be here either today or tomorrow.. I am already using the fly press for doming brooches that I do on a side line for a freind of mine. Works great and it is actually faster than a hydraulci press by a factror of three...This thing should make making trammel hooks a snap.. Anyway I am using the bolts cause that is one step less than the way you are doing it and at a little more than $1.00 each, it's worth it to me... Now all I have to do is figure out how long to make the fullering tools and what temrinus to use on the ends. I see some experimentation here....in other words FUN!!! I am also thinking of incorprating my guillotine tooling to be used under this thing, that is if it will fit...Still have to measue that...If I can get it in there that would be the bee's knees.... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Jim, your plan sounds like an excellent one to me, and the round tooling for the bottom should be fine. We just learned the hardy hole and made all the tooling for that in class, so that is what I have been used to, but I can see where round would be good. I have hopes on a South Bend lathe for my shop down the road a bit, but that is bittersweet because it belongs to my flintlock mentor from long ago; he is 84 and doing dialysis 3X per week, but darn, I am going to miss him! He has a half finished long rifle and I have promised him his grandson and I will finish it when the boy is ready (he's 12 now). The bolts sound good, and I will have to try some. The collars are costing me over $2 each so if I can save a dollar I will. Looking forward to seeing some pictures when you have some tooling done, at your convenience. Where did you say you were buying them from? On thinking it over, I think you were smart to get a #6 press; you are of the proper size and strength to take advantage of it. The beauty of the flypress is that it so easy to making tooling; and most of it can be forged and then welded to your round stock; soon the trick is keeping track of all of it. I bought a piece of scrap grating out of 1" x 1/8" flat stock with 1" X 2" slots in it and that is going to be my "tool holder" for the flypress tooling. Have you seen John Crouchet's DVD? If you haven't and would like to I will mail you mine and you can send it back at your convenience. Just let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Ellen: I am really looking forward to getting the thing up and running as I see a lot of potential in this machine. As I said beofre Julius is great for flattening and some die work like center ribs where I can use the limit switches or hard stops but for fullers..it is almost impossible for me to do a decent job uisng Julius for fullering. I have squeezed through the web too many times. Having played with Augustus a bit I can "feel" what I am doing and more importantly I can SEE what I am doing so the distal taper in the blade will no longer be a problem. I just won't squeeze it as hard or as deep as I work the fuller down. I just have to come up with the right length for the fullers. I am thinking 3" as a starting length and work up or down from there. I have a couple of old decrepet brick chiself that have their head shot and shafts cracked up that could be very easily made into dies...I knew there was a reason I bought these things 20 years ago!! Flintlock huh? I just finished up a .62 Marshall rifle in full curly maple, swamped 42" barrel in browned iron furniture that shoots wonderfully... I have a rather extensive firearms collection (Hell's bells I have a Gatling Gun in my Dining room and a 3" rifle in my barn...) ranging from black powder to the modern stuff... My next project is a 1" wall gun....that should be fun.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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