Frosty

I heat my shop with my propane forge. It is 24X30, 12 foot walls insulated with a vent near the top always open, a window normally open. You need the CO detecter. I also have a hood over the forge and a fan to move the warm air down from the top. The hood is to help keep the moisture levels down in the shop as propane makes lots of water. Remember that the fire is also burning up the oxegen.
One of the other things to think about in the cold is that your propane wants to liquid up on you. I use a large tank outside that I heat when it is -20 or less with a manetic engine heater sold at the local auto parts store. If you are useing 5 gal. tanks you can set it in a tub of water to keep it warm, put a can of water where your forge will heat it so you can add heat as you need to.

Hey Mark, welcome aboard!

Mark is a "neighbor" about 25 miles from me and an accomplished smith.

It's good to have another Alaskan around.

Frosty

Frosty,

I did some looking around online and haven't found much yet on hazards of combining the chinmey. I'm looking to make it safe for my intended use, and will be taking some (all?) key components with me if I move.

Check with your local gas co. Fire marshal, etc. Don't ask your insurance Co. till you're actually ready to set it up and be careful then.

I have yet to talk to someone in the heating business that would consider mixing gas or oil burners and other fuels in the flue. They didn't have a problem mixing wood, coal, etc.

I'm no expert so talk to one where you live.

Frosty

You're just MEAN Imagedude!



Frosty

Not impossible, just amazing.

It looks like the helve is on a solid fulcrum and the spring relief is in the crank linkage. This means all the weight in the helve and solidly attached linkage gets to take part in each blow. Figuring exactly how much the weight translates to for moving metal is far trickier than my math allows. It's why there are standard slug sizes for calculating these things. Place a slug on the die, give it a whack and measure how much it moved to find out how much energy was shed.

Anyway, it's actually more than a 6lb. hammer though it's still light. Fast makes up for mass and 300 bpm is fast.

Still an amazing little hammer. I'd like to give it a try some day.

Frosty

Consider an appliance lid or door, they're really easy to find if you know where the local illegal dump sites are. :cool: My first forge was a washing machine lid with a brake drum let into it and packed with clay to the rim of the drum.

Frosty

Jacob:

Plumbing the stacks for the propane heater and coal or other solid fuel forge together will NEVER pass code and it's outright dangerous. A chimney sweep buddy I asked when building our present house went into the chemistry but the short story is propane exhaust contains mostly water vapor and encorages creosote buildup.

I'll be heating my shop with a large vertical stove I'm building from a piece of 24" can pile. While it'll be designed for multi-fuels, wood will be it's main course.

I have a salvaged SS fume hood that'll be adapted to cover the propane forge. The difference in my shop is how the exhaust system works, it's a down draw system. There is a system of ABS pipe under the floor connecting to a 4' on center grid pattern of 2 1/8" ID. sq. sockets. The sq. tubing is 2 1/8" ID because 2" sq. receiver tubing is about 6x as expensive. The sub floor exhaust system is connected to a blower and vented outside.

When in use the exhaust system draws smoke and fumes down into the floor so I don't have to exchange all the air in the shop a few times over to rid it of smoke. The gasser table's lags are 2" sq. tubing that will socket into the exhaust system and are connected to the hood. The welding / cutting table is a bar grate over a plennum and it's legs socket into the floor. If I need a scaffolding I can socket the uprights into the floor and clamp or weld whatever members to it I need. I'll be able to access the exhaust system by tapping into it from the socketed verticals. And so on.

Besides removing smoke and fumes closer to the source so it doesn't have to exhaust as much good air it passes it all under the floor. This will help warm the ground under the shop and help keep the shop warmer. It will also draw the coldest air off the floor rather than the warmest air from the roof peak.

My strategy for the wood stove is to keep myself between it and the forge. The stove will be placed against one wall near the center of the shop. It'll also get an aimable stack robber with a blower so I can direct heat where it's needed.

CO detectors are a good idea if you have any combustion going on and a hearty must if you're running a forge of any kind. Except an induction forge maybe. Even a torch can make a dangerous atmosphere, especially a rosebud.

Frosty

You're using the direct method of making charcoal, the easiest if least efficient.

Yes, you certainly can run an engine from wood smoke. The Japanese were doing just that towards the end of WWII when they couldn't get gasoline. In the south pacific they used coconut shells.

Frosty

Depew Helve, 6 lb head, will work my LG50 to death, hits harder, hits softer, hits faster, amazing control.

Six? (6) lb. head? Out works a 50lb hammer?

Are you including the weight of the helve and attachment hardware?

REALLY curious.

Frosty

That's quite the kelly bar. Oil rig? I have a kelly bar off one of our rigs but it's 2" sq.

Frosty

This is a pic of my large coal forge. The angle is a little odd but I wanted to show the ash dump which is a truck exhaust cap. The tuyere is welded up from 4" exhaust pipe.

The table is 3' x 3' fire brick on 12ga sheet, angle iron frame. No fire pot, I like a duck's nest and fire brick stacked to make whatever size or shape "pot" I need. The big hood is only marginally effective, I made it years before I knew what would work. When I move it into the new shop it'll get a side draft hood.

I also have a cast iron Buffalo rivet forge and hand crank blower but no pics.

Frosty

I'll get a couple once the camera's charged up again. Seems the plug slipped out of the dock while we weren't looking.

Frosty

M- There are better ways to make charcoal.

What you're doing is called the direct method and you'd be farther ahead to just fish the burning coals out of a campfire and douse them, your hair driers are wasting quite a bit.

The indirect method is easy to do and is the most efficient for the backyard collier.

Find a 5gl steel bucket with a removable lid, the kind that clamps on with the metal tabs. Pack it as tightly as you can with split dry wood no thicker than 3". It can be the full length of the interior of the bucket. Remove the cap or make a hole about 1" in dia. in the lid to vent smoke and hot gasses.

Dig a pit a little larger than the bucket laying on it's side, build a fire and lay the bucket in the fire. Keep an eye on it and when it stops smoking fish it out of the fire and block the vent hole with a wad of fiberglass insulation or similar non-flamable, non-melting material. You need to block the air but not seal the bucket. If you seal the bucket the vacuum formed as it cools will crush it. Another method is to stand the bucket vent side down in dry sand.

Once the bucket is cool to the touch, NOT warm, COOL, open it up and remove your charcoal. Don't worry if a little is uncharred, it can go into the next batch.

This method scales up to 55gl. drums and larger quite easily though it will take all day or longer rather than a few hours. If you graduate to larger batches you'll want to pipe the vented gasses into the combustion chamber and save on wood.

The gasses released charcoaling are flamable, largely wood alcohol, creosote and other various hydrocarbons are a shame to waste. Plumbing them back under the retort (55gl. drum, bucket or RR car) to finish burning makes for a self supporting process for the best efficiency. For a backyard operation anyway.

No accelerants, gas, kerosene, etc. If you can't build a fire without them take up something safer. :cool:

Frosty

I just wish they were not so darn expensive!!!

welder19

They're not.

You want to be a blacksmith don't you? Swages are easy to make. The scale can be large but the technique is simplicity itself.

Method 1. Cut two pieces of steel plate to match, say 2" x 3" or whatever you prefer. The plate's thickness must be the same as the dia of the swage you're making at a minimum.

Clamp both pieces of plate together with a piece of pasteboard between them. (playing cards, shirt cardboard, etc.) Put them in the drill press and carefully drill down the boundry between the plates.

Remember, if you exceed the thickness of the plate with the dia of the drill you will severely weaken the swage. You can also drill a number of swages in the same set. Clean up the edges of the (slightly less than) half round swages with a grinder, sander, etc. so it doesn't cut.

Weld a shank to match your hardy on one and a striking post and handle eye, rodding groove, etc. on the other and you have a matched set.

Method 2.

Cut a pair of matching plates and weld your hardy shank to one. Heat them both to high yellow and carefully place a piece of round, hex, oct, or whatever shape steel you want a swage for between the heated plates. Now whale the xxxx out of them to impress the shape into the swage blanks.

Care must be taken to keep both swage halves flat and dressing as with the drilled swages needs to be done as well. Weld your striking face and handle eye, rodding groove, or whatever you like to it and you're ready to go.

You'll need a sledge hammer and at least one friend you trust to swing it or who trusts you to swing it without anyone getting hurt.

What Glenn said too!

Frosty

Ditto, RR spikes are too low carbon for most tools. They were intended to be tough with low fatigue characteristics.

Jack hammer bits are a decent choice, another is 5160 leaf spring stock. There are ups and downs to either steel. Jack hammer bits will take the heat and impact better but are a bear to forge if you need to reshape them. There are also heat treating issues with some jack hammer bit steels.

5160 is a lot more forgiving, easier to forge and heat treat and is easy to aquire. The downside is it isn't very heat resistant and if you don't exhibit care the heat from the stock being cut will damage the hardy's heat treatment.

Use the RR spikes for tong handles and other applications where a little springy toughness is desirable.

Frosty

Another thought is to make a sheet metal anvil shaped stove. If you've seen Roger Degner's, "Peter Wrong" anvil you know what I mean. Then you'd be able to make it into a BBQ, stove with gridle or whatever. It's a cool or should I say "cooking with gas" idea.

While this isn't really on topic, it's close. Last summer I found a 36" dia wok at a garage sale and intend to make an outdoor setup for it in the summer kitchen. Well, while a club member was out welding up his home built anvil the wok got noticed and now I'll be taking it to our next meeting to cook a potluck lunch. We'll be using the casting furnace for the burner.

Like I say, similar but not quite the same.

Frosty

MIxing a little graphite with black paint will give a nice "steel" finish as well.

Frosty

I can think of another real bonus to taking an anvil stove tailgating at a game, it's unlikely anyone will JUST walk off with it.

Frosty

Also, a punch, drift, chisel, etc. can jam as the metal being penetrated cools and shrinks while the punch, etc. heats and expands. With experience a person will know when to stop driving and knock the penetrator out of the work. A good lube makes removal more forgiving in addition to making the whole process more efficient.

Frosty

Yes, ditto thanks for posting the URL.

Frosty

Are you talking about the oil port above the gears? It's just one of the little spring flap covered oil posts you see on machinery everywhere. Hmmmm, come to think of it I don't recall if mine has the little flap on it.

I just put a little (half dozen or so drops) 30wt motor oil in the hole and it works fine. Chainsaw bar oil works well but gets stiff if you live in cold country, say teens and below.

Frosty

M- There's nothing wrong with planning for the future, even if it's a fantasy future. Make your drawings and plans, keep them in notebooks and keep them handy. I've been doing it since I was 9-10 and still do it.

Every once in a while I'll browse back through my old notebooks, sometimes laughing at the grandiose plans I had "way" back then, other times I wonder than my plans and desires haven't changed in 40 years or more. The best though is when I happen on something I wrote or drew decades ago and the lightbulb goes on.

HEY! That wasn't a bad idea! I didn't know how to do it then or couldn't afford it then but now I do and can.

So, don't stop dreaming, life itself will do enough to keep you from them and every once in a while it'll allow you the opportunity to realize one so it's best to keep a goodly trunkful of dreams handy so you can take advantage.

Frosty

What ARE you talking about? Separating the solids from the volatiles would eliminate the flamability and wonderfuly delightful flash! Next thing you'll say is you want to eliminate the sound.

What IS the world coming to? A smith who doesn't want flames bursting forth from the project!

I think I'll go morn a dying art now.

Frosty

Frosty - what's that supposed to be above? - a picture of you asleep at the wheel? I know better.

Ralph

Hey Ralph!

Good to see you posting here.

It's a picture of two goats, one baby, one old.

I fell asleep playing with baby goats once and woke up at the bottom of a pile of sleeping goats and one great pyreneese mountain dog. Fortunately I woke up and got out before Deb saw me or there'd be pics all over the web.

Frosty

Collective gasp, look at the size of that forge !!

Wait a minute!!
If that is just a tad larger than the drum head on the 55 gallon drum, and we used the 55 gallon drum to make the 55 Forge . . . . then that would make the 55 Forge the same BIG SIZE !! Pardon my excitement, I just realized that I already have a working forge that size, (sigh).

Well, now I have a spare forge body if I need one.

Not quite Glenn. Yur recent aquisition looks like the fire pot, not the whole forge. I'd say the entire forge would have to be based on the end of a 500 gl fuel tank rather than a 55gl. drum. (size wise. Don't actually use a fuel tank unless you REALLY know what you're doing!)

I'd say it looks like a fire pot for forging anvils. Large anvils and other large stuff.

Frosty

Thanks but you should be thaning Brian Gilbert. He's the one who spurred me into cleaning it up enough to print, spend a lot of time helping as well. He also provided the process pics and references so you can compare.

I've been sending versions of it for years, finally saving a copy and cutting and pasting with revisions as needed. It must've finally gotten close enough to okay for Brian to try to save it. Well, sending it to a newsletter editor's list we both belong to might have had something to do with it.

The tongs were a real pleasant surprise, Brian had already sent me a copy of the pattern issue of the Blow which was more than I expected. Finding the tongs at the P.O. was a day maker for sure. heck, it was a week maker at least.

Tunnel Mill was a good time, the first real hammer in I'd ever been to. AK is pretty isolated. I remember meeting lots of people but I don't remember a Skunkriv in the house and your Avatar pic is too small for me to recognize.

I hope to get back for sure. Deb and I plan on doing some traveling but it'll be a bit yet.

Frosty