Frosty

Shall we move half of this thread to the forum on Linguistics.com ?

Linguisticks?

Aren't those the things you boil to make linguini?

Frosty

I've worked outside, it was a pain in the butt. I only have a couple pics of the outdoors set up, this one has Richard in it. He was one of my first students and a fine young man.

Frosty

You know .. I'm considered to be a real sick puppy by my friends. .. but I see I've been outdone. ..

( what about it you use a wrought iron or ASO for the job? would that be ok? )

Does the wrought iron anvil have a steel face? Hmmmm? I certainly couldn't endorse it's use as a hot skinner if it had a steel face.

ASO? (Adequate as a Skinner Only?)

Sick puppy? I think your friends need to get out more.

Frosty

I guess that after the anvil is hot enough just rubbing one's skin against it would make the skin stick ..and thus .. with time and a lot of sadism . .a sick person could skin a whole man alive.

I suppose you could do it that way but hot enough to get skin to stick properly comes awful close to damaging the heat treat on the anvil. I don't think a responsible smith would do something that evil!

I believe the proper method is to poke the horn under the customer's skin, then slide it along under the skin to remove it. Small areas like fingers, toes and such are simply tapped a couple times with the anvil and the skin will slip right off.

But. . . Even THINKING of heating an anvil that hot! Talk about a sick person!

Frosty

Chuck:

I know exactly what you mean by transitioning from a machinist to a blacksmith. Father was a metalspinner and machinist and I grew up in his shop. He didn't understand why I wanted to eyeball a design and mash it out of hot steel when I could machine one to a couple ten thousandths.

Dad did everything like it was going on a moon shot. Dad has parts he made on the moon and in deep space, some have officially left the solar system. Still, there's no good reason to build a garage or kitchen cabinet that way eh? :cool:

I've been away from home for more than 35 years and still tend to build to ridiculously tight tolerances.

Frosty

I was cooresponding with a smith in Sweden in the early days of the internet and he told the same story. Lots of smithing tools for next to nothing.

I actually researched and talked to a couple people who ship from western europe and it'd cost about 1/3 as much to buy new as it would to ship one.

Of course if I could slip one into my baggage. . .

Frosty

That's quite nice.

I'm wondering though, why wouldn't your grandmother want the cat coming downstairs and being decorational?

Frosty

I don't suppose there's room for the pot belly stove inside eh? I hope you find room for it in the new shop even if it's just for folks to come by on cold days, put their feet up and swap lies over hot coffee.

I'll be putting a foot rail by mine for just that purpose.

Lastly; congratulations for finding a woman who appreciates a man's need for a larger shop. May you two last a long, long time.

Frosty

Nice troll, especially for a first one.

Be sure you use an unplated washer. Plated washers will give off dangerous fumes when heated.

The gold colored cadmium ones are especially dangerous.

Think I'll give a troll a try, I have a bucket of spikes.

Hmmmm.

Frosty

Use 1", 8oz Kaowool cut it about an inch longer than necessary to fill the tube when rolled up with the ends butted. Then cut a second piece to fit inside that one for 2" total insulation.

Instead of using an insulating fire brick for the floor, use split 3,000f hard brick(s). They're WAY more durable, especially if you get flux on them.

Another option is kiln shelving. It works well but is a lot more expensive. It's best feature is it's a lot thinner and heats up faster.

Whichever you use lay it on top of the Kaowool so it's insulated as well. You may need to float it on only one layer of Kaowool but that's still WAY better than no insulation.

Frosty

Another solution for the problem of your eyes needing to adjust after looking into the fire.

Don't look into the fire so much, it won't make the steel heat faster. Honest. It's also bad for your eyes, too much IR will cause problems down the line.

Another trick I use is to stand at an angle to the line the steel is inserted into the fire so when I want to check I can pull it partway out and see it without having to look into the heart.

Other than judging heat, it's hard to have too much light in a shop.

Frosty

You make my point perfectly. Loaded chamber, safety on and you still make sure it's pointed in a safe direction. Doesn't sound like you trust the safety any more than I do.

Putting your hand in the business end of a running machine is NOT pointing the weapon in a safe direction. As already said, you wouldn't put your hand over the muzzle would you? Especially if you KNEW the safety was worn. Would you?

And yes, when I hunted I used to keep a round chambered, depending on conditions. The safety was on regardless.

Don't get me wrong, I've done dumb things and gotten bitten. Dad kicked my xxx when he caught me doing dumb things so I wouldn't lose body parts or worse.

Mostly though he allowed no excuses, zero. Everybody screws up and that's okay. Sometimes we do things we know we shouldn't and get away with it, sometimes not. Making excuses for doing stupid stuff is inexcuseable and shows a definite lack of respect for the machinery and oneself.

A year ago september I shattered my left arm. Nobody saw me fall, I could've said anything and nobody would've questioned me.

What happened was I didn't follow good safety practices. I was stepping off of the track of a mini excavator, less than 12" to the deck of the trailer I was loading it on. There was nearly 2' of deck space to step on too.

So, what did I do? I swung my left foot off the track, let go with my left hand and slid down the grab bar with my right hand. A whole 12 step. big Whoop"!

I don't know if I slipped on the dew covered steel side rail or just stepped off the deck but the next thing I knew I was going down. Tried to drive my left elbow into the ground like a tent peg and planet earth prevailed.

9 useable pieces and lots of splinters, chips and such, poked bone through my skin in three places. Three surgeries totalling close to 12 hrs. Nearly a year's worth of healing and recovery.

Like I say, I could've said anything, made up some plausible reason for why it wasn't my fault.

Truth is I was complacent. "Familiarity breeds contempt," was another favorite saying of Dad's and that's what caused my fall. It was only one little foot with almost two feet to land on. I don't need to follow the, "three points of contact," rule.

It wasn't the first time either and probably won't be the last. I dipped my cup in that well once too many times and it kicked my butt. No excusees. Zero. I was lucky this time, REALLY lucky, my elbow works darned well, almost no pain and in the high 90%s of range of motion.

Like I say, I've done plenty of dumb things, gotten away with most, paid for a few. So, that isn't my issue.

It's the excuses that are intolerable and frankly so damaging to the newer guys. The only reason you still have your hand is just plain dumb luck. You asked to have it removed in a particularly grissly manner, begged repeatedly in fact and for some joyous reason you only have some bruising to show for it.

That you aren't shouting about how lucky and stupid you were is what convinces me you wouldn't be a safe hunting companion, nor someone with which to share time in a shop.

Your's or mine.

Frosty

I'm really happy you weren't injured seriously.

On the other hand had you pulled a stunt like that in my shop I'd 86 you then and there. I don't mean for getting pinned, I mean reaching into a running machine. :mad:

It doesn't matter how many times you get away with doing something like this, it's begging for trouble. Sooner or later it will bite you. Smithing is dangerous enough without taking unnecessary risks.

Trusting a brake is like trusting the safety on a firearm, you just don't do it. Add to that you let it wear out of adjustment?

You get no sympathy from me. I'm glad you weren't hurt worse and really hope you learned the lesson. What I'm more concerned about is how many people have watched you reaching into a power hammer and think it's okay.

Perhaps you can make up for that a little by getting a good picture of your hand after the bruises get really ugly, blow the print up nice and large and put it behind the power hammer with an explanation of what you did.

End rant.

Frosty

Anyways thanks guys. .but I think I'll just scrap it . .why keep it if its broken and if I have one twice as heavy .. made of cast tool steel. Right?

Wrong.

An anvil does NOT need a horn to be useful, I'd take it in a heartbeat if for no other reason than to have another anvil for students. As it is I only have two quality anvils and a third would be a welcome addition.

Frosty

I'll tell you who REALLY appreciates you.

Your dog.

Frosty

NEVER try to carry/drag a baboon from it's cage to a dog box in a truck, ESPECIALLY if the owner offers you $500 for the task.

...Long, painful story

I'm waiting Joe.

What I learned the hard way is probably about 25% of what I know. Dad was a metal spinnr and if I hadn't been able to learn from listening, watching, asking, etc. I wouldn't have nearly as many fingers as I do.

Sometimes the only way to verify what you've been told, read, etc. is to give it a try. Learning to experiment with dangerous things safely is another thing Dad taught me early on.

A favorite Dad saying was, "DON'T DO THAT! . . . This is how it's done."

Seems he thought I'd try whatever it was anyway.

Frosty

Is there a prayer list for folks who sit at the breakfast table reading "Pounding out the Profits" or "Anvils in America"; or other smithing esoterica?

You got me on that one. Psychiactric care might be in order though. Not that a smith could afford psychiactric care of course.

Frosty

after reading more about this the thread should be "Hot Steel does not attract a Magnet"

Hot iron isn't magnetic either. The carbon content has nothing to do with whether it'll become non-magnetic or not, it's strictly a matter of the molecular structure's reaction to heat.

Also, there's lots of new theories about what's actually going on in the earth's core. That it's not liquid is pretty well accepted. (right now anyway. ) One school of thought has the iron core kept a solid by the pressure with a smaller core of fissionables, fissioning in the very center. This being what's keeping earth's innards hot.

Frosty

Don't apologize!

I love a good straight line, thank you very much.

Frosty

Excellent John!

It's very good to have a bit of family history in hand, better yet to be able to use it as it was intended.

Frosty

The old fashioned feel of a ball pump? Oh yeah, I remember great grand dad telling me how he used to pump the ball pump for his father at the forge.

Oh yeah, those were the good old days alright.

Frosty

Yeah, ya gotta be careful what you tell the younguns; especially if momma can get at ya! Some mommas just don't have a sense of humor.

I don't remember when I learned the difference in smell between my Levis and virtually anything else. I was young though, under 9-10.

Dad had me holding torch for him by then and he just let me discover the importance of keeping the smells straight. Mother didn't brain him for letting me get burned either, heck, SHE thought it was a good idea. I don't know how many times she told me, "You'll know better next time won't you?"

I always wondered about kids who's mothers didn't laugh at them when they did something dumb and got hurt. Another favorite Mother saying was, "If you hurt yourself I'll paddle your butt when we get back from the doctor!"

Attached is a pic of Father spinning hot. Sherrie is holding the torch for him, she was Dad's business partner's wife. Anyway, I was young enough I had to stand on a bucket when I started holding torch for him.

Frosty

Do make sure you don't make it too small, somewhere before you get to 2' x 2' leaves it will be too inefficient to function worth pumping the handle.

Canvas makes nice bellows though you'll want to treat it with a borax solution to make it fire resistant. Putting it under the rafters is a fine old tradition to put it out of the way and help prevent fires.

If you have to put the bellows at or below the level of the firepot a safety trick is to build the tuyere so it's like a "P" trap. This prevents smoke, CO and other flamable coal gasses from flowing into the bellows and exploding when you give it a pump.

Frosty

Butted maille means the rings are cut so the ends meet in a butt joint and are held in position by spring action of the rings.

Riveted rings are a lot more time consuming. You draw one end wide and punch a hole, the other end is drawn into a tennon, bent and threaded through the hole and peaned like a rivet. This is a very time consuming and expensive method of producing chain maille.

Welded maille links are excruciatingly rare and EXENSIVE due to the huge amounts of skilled labor involved.

Frosty

Post pictures when you fire it up for the first time.

Which pics would you like to see Brother M?

The forge burning merrily?

Apprenticeman and cohorts blazing away merrily?

Or something else once the smithy itself gets rolling?



Frosty