Frosty

I believe cupric or copper sulphate will plate iron or steel with copper. The other option I know of is electroplating.

Of course you could look in the yellow pages for a plating business and ask for a quote.

Frosty

Very nice Grizz.

Frosty

I'm suffering a serious case of anvil envy.

Frosty

The power hammer he's using is a 40kg. version of the Rusty / Dusty, he calls Krusty.

Frosty

Haven't posted much lately. Back in Feb. I had an accident and lost half of my left pinkie finger and had nerve damage to the ring finger.





The left one is a 127# Hay Budden and the right is a 119# Mouse Hole.


Hay Budden



Mouse Hole



I also found a shop mascot. A cast iron cooter(turtle).



They are in pretty good shape and both have good rebound and ring. I am one happy camper.

Welcome back Cooter.

Sorry to hear about the accident. I know how rehab is, I took a dive off a tilt deck trailer last sept, shattering my left arm and am just now getting over the injuries. Do the PT.

I'd compliment you on your new anvils but for some reason I can't see them. I can see the link in my reply but not in your original. Maybe they'll show up in my reply. If not, oh well.

Nice score.

Frosty

Finding a good anvil is a fine thing but not worth waiting for if the alternative is not doing any forging. Even a cheap cast iron ASO is preferable to wishing.

Horns are also over rated and certainly not a show stopper. A radiused corner will form most scrolls, rings and the like. Add an interior radius like a swage or piece of halved pipe and you can do almost any turning.

If you have to have a horn try searching the scrap yard for horn-like iron or steel objects. A wheel spindle makes a nice horn, as does a large hinge pin. Keep your eyes open and you'll see all kinds of really useful shapes to replace a traditional horn.

Smithing is more about improvisation than it is about having the "right" tool for the job. Seriously if the "right" tool were really necessary to do the work nobody without a mandrel cone could form a ring.

On the other hand one of my students wasn't able to find a "real" anvil and bought a Chinese, cast iron, ASO for his home set up. A couple years later a decent anvil turned up but he decided not to buy it as he was making the ASO do what he wanted and the money could buy him more tools and material instead.

Frosty

Hey Roger!

Good to see you posting, welcome aboard. I fully expect to see you dominating the "It followed me home" thread very shortly.

Next year's Dig is at Lynda and Elmer's in NC and 2010 is here. I don't know about 09' but will try to make it. A number of people who'd planned on attending had stuff come up. Not surprising, most folk are pretty busy.

One last thing. Anyone wanting to see how IT is done, Roger has video taped more smiths in action than anyone else and you absolutely can NOT beat the price.

Frosty

It doesn't by any chance have, "CLAY BEFORE USING," cast in the pan does it?

I have a round Buffalo RR forge with worse cracking that that. It has, "CLAY BEFORE USING," cast in All caps in the pan. The layer of clay prevents thermal shock and heat checking. Mine was cracked when I got it and showed signs of being fired un-clayed.

Mine still works, cracks and all but I rammed damp clay about 1" thick into it before I used it. I considered welding it up and may someday but it's not my main forge so am letting it slide for now.

If you want to weld it up ask around first, it's not a beginner's project and you may be better off taking it to a welding shop equipped for welding cast iron. Welding it up is doable but a by the numbers project with a very real probability of making it worse in the process

Fabbing another forge pan is another alternative you might consider. It's a lot easier than welding up a casting that large.

My condolences.

Frosty

I work for the city. The jokes are all the same, you just change the color of the trucks

You got THAT right.

The state stopped using orange trucks 10 years ago and the public still hasn't caught on.

Frosty

Looks good Tyler.

What's it made of? What's it weigh? What's. . . Oh the usual details please.

Frosty

Frosty; I was a mud-logger in Oklahoma when I started smithing. Didn't do any on site; but did pick up a lot of tools and scrap in the small rural towns that were near the rigs. Did a lot of reading too as the 12 on 12 off until the hole was done didn't leave much time to drive the usual 3 hours back to my apartment; so I'd camp out in my van, fish and read on my time off.

Thomas:

Oil patch geologist?

I was an exploration driller, taking pre-construction soils samples, placing instruments and doing infield tests for bridges, foundations, etc. We seldom went more than 200' down as all we were interested in was the soils mechanics as it related to supporting a structure.

Most of our jobs were in the Alaskan bush and Alaska doesn't have much of an industrial history. I have lucked out on a couple occasions but not often. Twice in fact in 19 years drilling. We were almost never close enough to drive home after work, heck, frequently we were flown to the site or close anyway.

The guys on the centerline (drilled roadbeds rather than bridges) had trailers, campers and the like but we didn't. Most of the time there wasn't a road to our locations yet. We spent a lot of time in tents, occasionally a cabin, lodge, roadhouse or hotel.

I quit hunting, fishing or camping for fun after about 3 years on the drill crew. I'm really, REALLY good at camping and other outdoor craft it just isn't much fun anymore. Seriously, I can bake a scratch made pizza at a campfire. You should've seen the look on my bride's face when I did just that on a rainy evening while we were building the house.

Lots of memories. I won't be making THAT mistake again.

Frosty

I learned the bulk of my skills by myself in spite of the best intentions of my parents. They're depression era kids and saw no point in putting so much work into something that wasn't going to put money in the kitty.

So, even though Dad was reasonably accomplished as a smith he wouldn't show me anything except occasionally heat treating something. He insisted I work in his metal spinning shop in my off time.

Metal spinning taught me a feel for metal, all kinds of metal. Believe me you learn when something has been pushed as far as it'll go without breaking really quickly if the metal is a blank in a lathe spinning at a couple k RPM!

So, I built fires, poked various pieces of metal into them and beat the crap out of them. I say metal and them because coming from my background I didn't think "Iron or Steel" when I thought about heating and beating.

If you grow up in Southern California you learn quickly you can't just build a fire without having all kinds of official unpleasantness descend on you. Sure, all I was doing at first was playing with fire and hitting things with hammers but nobody'd let you get away with THAT! If on the other hand you said you were "blacksmithing" they'd smile indulgently and tell you all about their blacksmith, father or grandfather. So, that's what I did, I pretended to be blacksmithing while I played with fire and hammers.

My first forge, "real forge" that is, came about because Mother got tired of me heating things on the kitchen range and using a brick or rock on her counter for an anvil. I remember what she said pretty clearly even though we moved out of that house shortly after I turned 8. She said, "GEORGE! Build the boy a forge and anvil. If you want to eat again you will get him out of MY kitchen!" Or something to that effect.

Dad gave me a little chunk of steel for an anvil, maybe 25-30lbs. tops and made me a "forge" by giving me a reject steel pan spun in his shop. It had no legs, no air grate, tuyere, etc. Just a lousy steel pan. I propped it up and used it anyway but couldn't get much going as I'm sure you can imagine.

We moved from that house shortly after I was 8 and the new house was on a commercial acre so there was room for me to get out of sight and do my own thing. My first REAL forge was a brake drum set into a washing machine door that was packed to the drum's rim with adobe clay. It was powered by a hair dryer of the old plastic hood and hose variety. It was laid on a stack of cinder blocks and burned charcoal. . . Once the wood burned to coals that is. I was maybe 10.

My anvil was 2" x 4" x 24" +/- a piece of mild steel bar stock I lifted from Father's shop. Mounting it on cinder blocks wasn't too successful but wood worked once I figured out what was wrong.

This basic set up lasted me for a long time, with mods through high school in fact. After I got out of school I found myself butting heads with the real world and had to get a paycheck job. Smithing turned into a back burner thing. A couple years later I moved to Alaska and smithing really took a back seat to making a living.

It took a few years in AK to get established in any sort of stable way. Then I got a job with the State and shortly there after found myself working for the geology section and living a good deal of the time in the bush.

I was never very good at being an off duty driller, a half rack of beer was just not much fun. After a couple years of trying I started packing a pair of tongs and decent hammers along to play in the campfire. It wasn't long before I made a RR track anvil and that was my kit for years. A home made track anvil, a couple pair of tongs and a couple hammers. I used tools off the rig for the rest, chisels, hacksaw, pliers, visegrips, etc, etc.

I was talking about smithing at the materials lab one day and one of the guys said his neighbor was selling his anvil. WooHoo! A REAL anvil at last! That's where I got my 125lb. Sodorfors Sorcoress #5 and a pallet full of tongs.

Well, I was still just pretending to smith but getting better. One day I was wandering through a local book store. . . (I tended to read a lot instead of drink when I was off duty, I was such a PITIFUL driller. ) Anyway, as I was walking by the clearance table I saw an interesting title. It literally reached out and grabbed me! "The Art Of Blacksmithing" by Alex Bealer.

Seemed the book store ended up with a dozen copies by mistake. I grabbed one and after thinking about it went back a couple days later to buy another copy. They were all gone; boy what a mistake ordering such non-selling titles was!

Reading "The Art" cover to cover a couple times was a real eye opener for me, it told me WHY some of the things I'd been trying didn't work, told me how to do them "right" and in general made me into something similar to a blacksmith.

I now have a pretty complete library of smithing books and have read them all cover to cover sponging everything I can.

The web has been a font of information and interaction with smiths and other metal workers. It's undoubtably the source of the bulk of my knowledge. It's a lot like a book except it has lots of opinions and you can ask questions. You still have to experiment on your own and unlike a book you can't have it laying open on the bench to take quick looks while you work.

My second best source of learning is watching other smiths, swapping techniques and lies. It's a quality over quantity thing and really sharpens the old learning curve. This doesn't happen nearly often enough around here, unfortunately.

Number one on my list of education is teaching. NOTHING has taught me more about the art than teaching it to someone else. There's NOTHING like having to explain why I just did it THAT way to make me THINK.

Okay, that was REALLY long winded. . . But you asked.

Frosty

There's nothing wrong with the Sears cross pein a little dressing won't cure, they're not much different than any off the shelf hammer.

One of my long time favorites is a 3lb. Craftsman Driller's hammer. I only had to dress the faces and use it to make it nearly perfect. A driller's hammer is something I recommend all my students acquire. They're short handled for good control, reasonably heavy and small faced for good effect.

Still, there're a lot of places to find good hammers besides stores. Flea markets, garage, yard, farm sales, pawn shops, etc. etc. I always have my eyes open and every so often find a gem. I pick up any ball pein I see for under a buck, they're easily reforged into straight, cross or angle pein hammers. They also make any number of good set hammers.

A few weeks ago I came across an odd little hammer head for a buck at a garage sale. I don't know what it was for but the proportions are different. It's long at 6" with faces just 1 3/8" across and heavy at 3 1/2lbs. So it'll be putting quite a bit of mass into a smallish area of impact. It's going to make a good shaping or roughing hammer if it swings well.

So, you don't need to buy a "blacksmith's" hammer, heck, you can't really BUY a good hammer anyway. You acquire hammers and if you use it long enough you MAKE it Your smithing hammer. Sometimes you literally make it, somethings you just dress, reshape or rehandle it. No matter what you find, forge or modify, the only way to make it YOUR hammer is with use.

Frosty

Thanks all.

The cup holder is gimbal mounted because I MIGHT have to move, seeing as I don't work for the state anymore. You can NEVER be too careful you know.

I made this during a gathering of metal artists in Elk River Mn. over Father's Day. We were supposed to make an "Artist's Book," whatever that is. I've had a paycheck job for the past 35-40 years and am not an artist. Anyway, the "Book" was supposed to say something about the person, their art, etc.

I flew down early to give my good friends a hand setting up for the Shindig and after it got going I realized what my "Book" should be. There's a long standing bunch of jokes about what a state employee does. I'm sure you've heard most of them like, "What's orange and sleeps four? - A state truck." And so on. The one I was repeating at the time the muse spoke to me was, "What's this high (holding your hand about shirt pocket level) and smells like an armpit? - A state shovel handle."

So, there it is, my "Artist's Book". A brand new, stickers intact, shovel, with foam padded handle, that'll NEVER scoop anything, ever. It's permanently mounted on a stand with DOT - RET in forged letters welded to it. Also to show just how versatile a State Employee has to be, the cup holder will hold not only a beer but soda can or coffee cup safely.

The real story of this book is of course that it's the end of that story. Time to open a new volume and move on.

And YES your wheel barrow should have a cup holder! Good grief is it even a QUESTION?

Frosty

Darn I hate having to reply to my own posts but the pic of me and my shovel didn't attach to the last one.

With crossed fingers.

Frosty

Sure, there are all kinds of things I could've scrounged to make handles. I haven't broken an axe handle in a long time so don't have one around. Same with shovel handles I'm REALLY easy on them see attached pics. (I retired from the State of AK June 1) I picked up a couple hockey sticks but they're too narrow for these hammers. Repousse hammers maybe but not forging hammers.

I have a bucket of unused hammer handles I picked up when a hardware store went out of business 15 or so years ago and I may grind them into slab handles. There are a number that'll make good striking hammer handles so I won't have to make those.

I suppose I could've looked around more for old tool handles to adapt but with the price of fuel buying a 1" x 6" x 8' hickory board was not only cheaper but got me a bunch of handles fast.

Frosty

look up a tattoo site called strikethebox.com It is a site for firefighter tattoos. Mine is on there in the "skull" section. It is a skull wearing a fire helmet in the middle of a red malteese cross. The cross has flames around it. It will be towrds the end of the selections as you scroll thru them. I am from Montgomery alabama. There are many different tattoos on there and it may give you some ideas.

Nice Tat. I hope I'm looking at your's and you're Gary from Montgomery. If not, there're a lot of excellent tats. Give me more specific directions and I'll take a look. I've already worked myself through most of about 8 catagories, I'd like to know I'm looking at yours.

Thanks for doing the job you do. Not everybody has it in them to run towards trouble and fix it.

Frosty

Thanks Tyler.

It's 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" and weighs in around 2 1/2 lbs though I haven't weighed it.

The eye is 5/8" x 1 1/4", slit and drifted for a slab handle. The handle is a piece of 4/4 hickory I picked up at the local hardwood store. We don't have anything really suitable for handles growing in my neck of AK.

As it is in the picture, the handle is too long but it will get shortened as soon as I've used it enough to grind some grime into it to mark exactly where I'm gripping it most. It's a straight taper with the edges broken lightly on the belt grinder.

A few months ago I got to use a Tom Clark version of Uri's hammer and liked the way the handle felt. I've been using what I call a fencer's grip for decades and didn't realize how poorly a "standard" hammer handle worked for a loose grip. Once I figure out just how I like this handle I'll start changing my other handles over. I'll try grinding them flat first to see if they suit me before I make new ones.

Frosty

Sounds like a classic practice issue to me.

Make sure your anvil is the proper height, between your wrist and knuckles.

Make sure your hammer faces are radiused so you have no sharp edges.

After that, practice, practice, practice. If you're really putting lots of sharp marks in your work you shouldn't worry about making "things" as such. Make lots of long draws or try some of the other exercises suggested already.

The real secret of a master smith is control. If you can't hit what you're aiming at in the way you want to hit it you aren't going to be successful. The only way to develop the control is by using your hammer. Driving finish nails with the ball pein might be a bit extreme but if you can do it reliably you be de MAN.

Frosty

A couple points:

A screen is a really good idea.

There are a couple problems using motor oil or waste oil, especially waste oil.

It'll work alright ,as a quenchant, if you thin it some. The old "formula" we used was 3pts 30wt. motor oil to 1 pt. ATF. (Automatic Transmission Fluid) I've used 10wt. in a pinch but it's still to viscous for really good results. The real downside is the smoke, it's heavy, noxious and flamable. If you have nothing better motor oil will work but make sure it's deep enough to completely submerge the piece or you're going to be up to your armpits in flames.

Waste oil is worse because there is no telling what's in it, just a little antifreeze can make your day go badly. Even if there are no oddball ingredients the byproducts of use can be nasty. If you have to use petrochemical oils use proper heat transfer or quenching oils, they're not that expensive especially when you consider their performance.

Frosty

It depends on what you're quenching of course but you want a sufficient amount of oil to keep it from overheating / boiling on you. A couple three gallons for small pieces like punches, chisels and hammer heads is plenty.

A decent weight container is important, while a coffee or paint can is okay a dropped chisel can poke a hole in the bottom. You also want an air tight cover for a number of reasons. First being fire control, you want to be able to smother a fire that gets going.

A 5gl. steel bucket with lid and a piece of 12-14 ga. sheet in the bottom to prevent hole pokage is a good choice.

A length of pipe welded to a piece of plate is a common quench tank for bladesmiths.

There are a lot of solutions and most of them are good. (no tupperware right?)
Keep your eyes open and you'll find what you need.

Peanut, etc. oil is good but regular: quenching oil, heat treat oil or heat transfer oil is safer as it doesn't flash as easily. Some hydraulic fluids work well too, like DN-600, they have high flash points and the fumes aren't too bad.

Do it outside though.

Frosty

These pics are of a turning hammer I made at a friends place a couple months ago. It's made from a Ford truck axle. (Mark's truck unfortunately)

After forging and grinding I heated it gradually to non-magnetic and water quenched. I then used a heated drift to draw a progressive temper. The eye is drawn to blue and the faces are dark straw.

A missed stout blow will ding the faces slightly without chipping so I'm happy with the heat treat. So far anyway.

Frosty

I don't have a good pic loaded but these are my two main anvils. The closer one is a 125lb. Sodorfors Sorcoress #5 and the one showing it's heals is a 202lb. Trenton.

The area is the old tarp tent I was using a couple years ago. Most of the stuff is moved into the new shop even though I haven't been able to go back to work on it yet.

Frosty

Christopher:

You may have noticed how shiney most of the guys keep their hammers. This isn't just for show, though nicely polished hammers do look better. It also helps move the metal easier.

Think about what's happening when the hammer impacts the work. It's momentum carries the hammer face into the hot steel. Being non compressible the steel has to get out of the way but it's being crushed between the hammer face and the anvil face, just like a rotor in a disc brake. The rougher the face of the anvil and hammer, the sooner the metal stops moving. Keeping them polished means less work for you, it also means you'll have better control of the results.

The other reason to dress your hammers is to prevent the edge of the face from marking your work. With the exception of metal working hammers the edges are not radiused and the sharp corner can really do a number on your work.

The face should have a slight radius as well or you have to hit the steel perfectly or one edge will bite in.

Frosty

Dan:

I wouldn't give up on the full 30" twist till I gave it a try, it really isn't that hard to twist 1/2" sq. especially if you normalize it first as suggested.

There are other alternatives as well, including building a trench forge and heating with charcoal briquettes. You don't need orange heat for this so you don't even need an air blast.

My "try this first" suggestion is to just slip a piece of pipe over the wrench handle, put a piece of stock in your vise and give it a try. THEN make your decision.

I don't know how much time I've wasted designing and redesigning a piece because some untried aspect had me worried. There will be times you can't try it first but this isn't one of them.

Frosty