Rich Hale

I have the feeling that there is not a knife design that we can come up with that is not a direct reflection of something done in the past. WE can change materials and tweek blade shapes or handles a lot. but if we look far and wide enough we may be able to see a similiarity to something done in the past. So why try and reinvent the wheel? A huge key to making knives that are nice is to make knives that are nice. Get past the design phase and into the work of knife making in one easy step. Find something that pleases you and try and duplicate it. No matter what your taste is in blade shapes it is easy enough to select from known shapes and work from there. There are several knife suppliers that have blades for sale. draw a shape you like and enlarge to a full size working pattern and use that as a guide or template. If you transfer that design to aluminum brass or shet metal of any sort you can lay it onto the blade as you forge if that is your method and see what to work on as you go. If you saw to an outline then simply use a permanent marker to trasfer your design and cut to the line. When I borrow a shape I change something. I think that is fair to the person that gave you the idea. If you borrow a shape from someone you can reach speak with them an ask for permission. I use several patterns for my knives and when I lay aone of my patterns on a bar of steel I may shorten or lengthen the blade as I copy or I may change handle shapes and or size. One big change is to go from a full tang knife to a hidden tang or tang with a butt cap. Same basic pattern but done many different ways will look really different as a finished knife. Handle design is really the same as above.. find an outline you like and put it to use. How you treat it and what materials you select will be crucial to the overall look. The discipline of takeing a shape and working to produce that shape will add to your skills a lot. The completion of a knife is vital to your future as a knife maker. Making a blade is a good step but fitting the furniture and handles materials and seeing it through as a finished piece will round out your skills. Anyone can start a knife or for that matter any project. Those that see through to completion will learn a lot more and move ahead in the learning curve. That is how I see it,,,Rich p.s. If you see a knife in the forum or gallery that I have posted and like the shape you can enlarge the pic to the size you want and use it for a shape pattern!

Should not have built a house with Foam

I feel that a man that makes his own tools learns so much. It is a really nice piece and I expect everything you do shows the work ethic the hammer shows.

A good point abouit the dirt and grit, espcially on days that I rough grind blades before heat treat I make a LOT of dirt and grit...I have alathe and it is on the other end of the shop covered up...

kind,,, because

I use my belt sanders for blades, I have two. One is the grizzley that you mentioned and I use it a lot. however I do not use it to hollow grind blades. Sich the wheel is mounted on the end of the motors shaft the motor itself gets in the way of a blade that has the handle to the left of the wheel. My other is a high priced machine made by Hard Core. I do all of my blade grinding on it. Here are some things I like: 2"x 72" belts are easier to shop for price and a wide selection. I like access to both sides of the wheel. A variable speed is a must for me. Mine has a dc motor and dial control. A changeable pully set up would be fine also. Some things you need slower speeds and some faster. A nice flat platen set up is really useful for a lot of things. Belt grinder are a great additon to a shop and also a big investment. I think you can find some on-line how to plans if you feel like taking on another project.. have fun.

YOui can do a lot6 with that anvil it has a nice working face and looks to be in real good shape. Ir it were mine I would help it a bit. I would mount it on a stump the brings it up to a nice working hight from the floor and strap it down tight.That will make it think it weighs a lot more than what the scales show. Enjoy.

FRom your thoughts about a blade for use in a drill let me suggest a low budget idea. A 4 1/2" angle grinder from Harbor Freight is under $20 on sale and sometimes under $10, They will cut with the thin abrasive cut off wheels. They are not good quality machines and don't expect them to last a long time. I have one that I have used a lot and it sounds like the bearings aremade from granite, It is not even ten years old and expect it to go belly up any day now.

This is a Drop point hunter with a three and three quarter inch long blade. The blade is ATS-34 stainless and has been heat and cryo treated, the guard and butt cap are 416 stainless and the handle is snakewood with red amber, nickel silver and black spacers.

When you get however many you want flat by using a hand hammer you may be able to get a job as popeyes stunt double. Less effort to get some steel drops from a spring shop almost the size for blades.

Hot cuts can work for any hot metal as long as you have to power to drive it through the metal. One thing to consider is what the hot cut will do to the metal. And that really depends on what you want the metal to look like when you are finished with it. I have never hot cuts a billet as I can envision the edges being smashed together along the area cut. This would deform whatever pattern I have built into the billet. Even if I were only to hot cut the ends prior to stacking and rewelding it would deform teh bar in an arfea I would rather have the layers the same thickness. Now after saying all that, I have seen billets hot cut, stacked and rewelded by a fella that gets a lot of money for his knives and they look great, So I fyou figure it out and it works,, great.

Bob is a tennesee walking horse gelding about 16 years old he is liver roan (grey) and stands 17 hands tall. He is as nice a horse as I will ever own.

Nice work not sure I ahve seen apricot wood before

This is a small drop point hunter with an ATS-34 blade that has been heat and cryo treated. The guard and butt cap are 416 stainless and the spacers are nickel silver. It has a handle of snakewood with red amber accents.

Jens that is another fine knife

This has some of the nicest ironwood burl I have found with african blackwood and amber it makes a real eye catching piece. Blade is ATS-34 heat and cryo treated, guard is 416 stainles and nickel silver spacers.

This is a 9 1/5 inch long hunter with sambar stag scales, The blade is ATS-34 that has been heat and cryogenically treated, length of blade is 5 inches, the pins and guard are 416 stainless. The sheath is hand sewn and basket stamped and is fitted to this knife only. This blade was completed today and has been sold.

REd beans and rice are not that bad,,neither are refried beans and tortillas,,,This thread has been very interesting. And it has gotten response from some very knowledgeable folks. I know I have personally gained from it. I also think that more than a few of you have figured out that you certainly do have to have some skills to craft anything not only knives. In addition to that you have to have an in-house quality control plan. For whatever it is that you craft you have to know how to price it and you also have to know what to sell. What can you produce that will make a few bucks and you can repeat? The quality control I use is really simple; I have decided that what works best for me is; what is the worst thing I will let out of my shop. Can I let a knife go out with a scratch in the blade? how big of a scratch? how many scratches? Can I let one leave with flaws in the handle or fittings? I think if you get it settled what you are willing to accept as your shop policy you will be well on your way to finding your place in the market. I think it was mentioned about that many folks use the same or similiar materials. It was also mentioned that you must develop a "name" How do you do that? What defines your work? This all does not apply only to knives but it applies to all trades or crafts. Most of us know that Irnsrgn ran a successful welding and repair shop. In a rural setting would he have lasted if he had a history of failed repairs or welds. Nope! I believe was it was self disciplined. To me that means that early on he decided what would be the worst example of what the was doing that he would let leave his place. His "name" came from that. Folks came back trusting they would get it done right. I use him as an example to show that when we work for ourselves or others we should not only work within our limits and abilites but we should also work to our standards.

I totally agree with workin in the shop being worth a lot. MAke sure you build a belt grinder that you can change speeds on Tredmills have a 1 or maybe 1 1/2 horse variable speed motor. Or you can use some step pulleys. 72 inch belts gives you a lot of options when you buy belts as far as quality and price.

This knife was hand made byJimmy I believe he said it was 5160 steel. I do know it had a nice feel and a keen edge.

This is a ten inch long hunter with a five inch drop point blade. Blade is ATS-34 and has been heat and cryogenically treated. The handle is Sambar stg with great contrast and it is accented with black, nickel silver and african blackwood spacers, amber adds to the overall look.

When you pick something you would like to forge analyze it to see if you have the skills to do ever part ot it. If it requires bending to a pattern like in a scroll try one and see learn that part or move on if you are ready. If it requires punching and drifting to a specific size test yourself on that. If you will have a forge weld get that down. This method takes advantage of what you can do and lets you upgrade skills as you find a need. It also does not limit what you want to build. You have to develop not only muscly memory but you have to train your mind to allow your body to do what it can without overthinking small things. Enjoy

The prices I put in the post were not the point of the post. Point being that IF you wish to make a hobby or full time job of your choice pay its way you would be well off to know what it costs you to do what it is you like to do. If you use free steel or other supplies it may be a good idea to know if it is really free. And I believe you should figure what cost of replacing it is or will be when the time comes and you have depleted your supplies. For example if you can drive ten miles and get a small load of free supplies now and when it runs out repeat the trip but fuels for you mode of transport has gone up 10%. Have you considered that a price increase of your product is in order or will you eat the loss and take less for your work?. I like the comments added to this more please.

My post seems to have been taken in the manner I had in mind. Many of you seemed to have already spent some time considering costs vs profits and a couple have put a lot of effort into this. rstegman makes a good point about skill level. I does take a lot of time to train you mind and body to funciton as a team and thea of course leads to another point to be made. You can take a lot of time off of the learning curve by attending classes, clinics, shop visits, books, videos etc. Just remember that those are part of the overhead in a knife shop. Just as Thomas mentioned the cost of the overhead you can touch and those that you cannot. They are still costs. And as you put aside money from each knife towards materials you should budget for further education and those unforeseeable items such as machine failure, up grades to shop. And yes those times that due to health or injury issues we have to lay off for a while. Lets keep this thing active a while and see what other items or issues pop up. Thanks.

Lately there seems to be a lot of new folks on here that make or want to make knives. May be a good idea to think about what it takes to make money on a knife. How much does it really cost you for materials and disposables to make a knife and or sheath and get it ready to sell and does it cost you to sell it? Steel runs from free to a couple of bucks and inch. Or is there free steel? If you have an old coil spring or leaf that someone gave you and brought to your shop that is free. If you had to go get it by gas vehicle then there is an expense. If you run out of true free steel then you have to figure how to go get more. If you forge how much does it cost for fuel? What do you use for fittings and how much does that cost? How about handle material? How about a sheath? Ok that gives you some idea of what this is about. I use some pricey stuff so lets look at a knife and costs. Blade steel for a medium hunter about $10, heat treat Another $10 ,guards and pins $20, handle material starts at about $25, Abrasives and buffing costs, another $5, So a rough cost is about $75 or is it. How about drill bits, band saw blades costs of getting the materials to my shop? Then think of how do you sell and what does that cost? Now, how about some money for you..what do you charge for your work? If you can do a knife in two hours, what would you want for the knife that cost $75 for materials? (and we have not mentioned time and materials for a sheath)! Also remember you can get about $7.50 an hour for flipping burgers. And one more item to think on; If you sell $50 knives even if the materials are free or real cheap, how do you raise prices? And when you run out of free or cheap materials will you get more for the same knife,,,,? Can you the charge more as it cost you more? I posted this to stir some thought and create some discussion and it really applies to anything we make in our shops. And no I did not discuss utility bills, cost of space to work in, insurance or a lot of incidental items we take for granted but pay to replace or maintain. Enjoy