loktr2002

Thank you this is just the kind of opinion I was looking for. Ben

Thank you for your cautions. However i have been building machines for 40 years and rebuilding them professionally for 25. While building a a press does not intimidate me, building one without as much knowledge as i can garner does. Both from the standpoint of wasting time and unconsidered hazards. I personally think that mechanical power hammers are much scarier.. I have several power packs ranging from 1 to 10 hp but none of them use the 2 speed pumps suggested by Batson. I asked about the need for speed because I would prefer to keep the hp to 7.5 or less (like to run it at home off a 10 hp rpc) and i don't think I can do that without a two speed pump or a smaller diameter cylinder. I am aware of the need to match components but am asking for the reasons (speed). I am speculating (as I dont have the experience) that if hp were not a consideration that a single stage pump would be just as good as a two stage. While i do have a limited amount of knowledge about how others use/operate their presses I have educated myself with the Batson pamphlet, Randy McDaniels book (I thought this was just great!) and the Parker series on control valves. What i was asking for was information on the actual operation of forging presses so I can determine whether to use a solenoid to operate the cylinder or whether a manual valve would work better. I want opinions I have a horizontal press that uses a variable output pump and a hand valve. I use this for bending components cold. I do feather the valve as I dont want stock flying at high speed. I have felt that this press would benefit from a diverter valve so that i could precisely stop bending without depending on a die to stop the bend. Your advice Neil about finding someone near me is great. Anybody in the Chicago Northern Il. area who would be willing to show me their press? Neil the reason i asked about the stroke was my reservations about limiting the application or ease of application about what seems to be the perfect cylinder except for stroke. Thanks, Ben

Why is the speed of the press so important? I keep reading references to faster presses doing more work than slower presses with more pressure. I can see the dies pulling heat on thinner steel a detriment but on 1-2" steel it does not seem like it would matter that much. Do people who have presses actuated by hydraulic hand valves typically use full pressure till bypass or feather the valve? I am asking because I am looking at the positives of an electric 4 way valve and it seems that the downside would be that you cannot feather it. I am planning to use the press for primarily damascus billets. I have scrounged a less than perfect cylinder off a embossing press. It has a 2.25 stroke, A 4" piston with a 3 threaded bore (depth of threaded bore 3.5" ) i haven't disassembled the cylinder but I am guessing 5.5" bore. I have been thinking that could work as it is unlikely to be able to reduce thickness over 1.5" per heat. What are the downsides of such a short stroke other than having to adjust for various tooling? Ben

Frosty my mistake for not communicating clearly! However i do enjoy and respect your curmudgeonly mood. I have been reading your posts from the artmetal days and I am consistently surprised at how well you manage not to insult people, especially those who are extremely deserving. Thank you for taking the time to educate me. Somewhere I found a post on someone who had a Edwards ironworker that came without the control circuitry. They used a threeway valve to divert pressure from the ipressure side to the return side. I dont know how it was plumbed. I am bending elements for chairs now with a horizontal press using dies. I am doing this cold in 3/8 and 1/2 hot rolled. I am able to control what I am doing by releasing the control when the pump boggs down. I am guessing my press is maybe 15 ton. My plan is to make a Batson press for general forging and for my chair parts so I can do some forging of the parts as well as bend them and do it hot. For repeatability I need some type of control. The edwards ironworker I have is rated at 55 tons, seems quite light in comparison to the Batson plans. Best regards Ben Rock BTW My Deb says ho to your Deb (Rock Farms, Pygora)

Frosty what i want to do is make repeatable bends and dimple forming. I need the piston to stop at the same point each time. i need the stop to be adjustable so i can control the dimensions of the bend. I am also planning to use the press to forge with as well. Ben

I am just West of Chicago. Trying to put a adjustable stop system together without using solenoids. Ben

One time I found a diverter hydraulic valve that was used to stop a cylinders advance by diverting the flow from the pressure side to the return side of the cylinder. useful as a hydraulic "stop" . They were made in England but i cant find them anywhere now. Anybody know what i am talking about? Where to locate one? Ben

You are correct Steve i have never ground a knife bevel up on a belt grinder. I am in the process of setting up a shop for knives and have a small Bader grinder, a Wilton square wheel and a Burr King all of which i have used conventionally but never bevel up. i am not used to how you grind which it seems most people grind. I am asking so that if it makes sense to run backwards that is what i would like to start out using. My equipment is three phase so switching rotation is not more than switching two wires and locktite on a couple nuts Thank you to all who have responded! Ben

To clarify: I have always ground edge tools the thin edge up, almost exclusively woodworking tools which typically are hollow ground 1/4 to 3/8 bevel width. I am comfortable doing this with grindstones. A knife is much thinner than a chisel and I always sharpen with the edge down but this does not allow me to see the wire edge form without taking it off. Putting it back on to the wheel it is difficult to get it just right!. I rarely use holding fixtures, mostly just hand.. With the belt direction reversed I would be able to work on the top of the contact wheel and clearly see the edge. Perhaps i am over thinking because i have not used a vertical flat platen machine. I just got one and it is obvious that you could not run it backwards without throwing grit and swarf straight up. ben

I just read a book by Murray Carter in which he says that all his grinders except for a bench grinder the belt/stone turns away from the operator. This seems to make sense to me as I have always had concern about the edge catching. I grind lathe and woodworking chisels with the wheel coming towards me, primarily so i can see the bevel and the wire edge forming, but I could certainly do this with the wheel/belt running "backwards" So I'm curious if this is a good way to go from the start. I would welcome any comments! Ben

Anyone use a Hypercyl press to forge with? Just picked up one at auction. Uses air to move the cylinder until contact with work piece and then hydraulics kicks in with a maximum power stroke of 1/2" after contact. Very fast but only 15,000 lb max pressure. Would this be enough pressure for setting damascus? maybe a better question would be how many tons per square inch of work surface is required for damascus and general forging? Ben

Hi, I recently read the book Damascus Steel and Practice by Lobach. He is a skilled writer but the pros and cons of embossing a pattern versus stock removal leave me a little confused. He says the benefit of embossing is the pattern does not get distorted but that the material loss is high and special tools are needed to emboss with. He goes on to talk about the advantage to notching (stock removal) is a small loss of material but that there is more pattern distortion as compared to embossing. Care to comment? Best regards, Ben

Shipping from Northern Illinois. Able to skid/palletize and great freight rates. i will get pictures soon. Ben