TASMITH

As you have discovered Matt there is a BIG difference in reading about how to do something and actually attempting it yourself. The same goes with watching someone who is experienced doing something and making it look easy until, again, you try it yourself. Don't be discouraged by this! It is amazing how quickly the skills that you have read about will begin to materialize when you attempt to do the work yourself. You will know doubt become addicted to trying out all the things you have seen and will be able to do them sooner than you think! Happy hammering!

Terry

That is excellent! You never see thorns added to most roses that people make but if your are going for a little more realism adding the thorns are necessary. Well thought out and executed!

Terry

Hey Leland,

Yes as an industrial Blacksmith, i have produced Items which are not in demand in the mainstream but not all of what I did was specialized either.At Algoma were I took my apprenticeship we used to make the hooks for overhead cranes used out in the mills. These hooks ranged from 15 to 100 ton capacity. we didn't often make the larger capacity hooks (50 to 100 ton) but every fall and winter (when it was cooler) the blacksmith on the large forging hammer (3000 #) would forge several of the smaller capacity ones. That would be part of the 'specialized' work we would do.

At the other end of the shop were the smaller hammers were (1000 # and 1500 #) we would make small capacity hooks,and chain links, connect the hooks to a length of chain with our link then forge weld the link shut. We would make up four lengths of these hooks and chains with another larger link through the other end of the chain (also forge welded). Then we would also make an even larger link that these four chains would be hooked onto to make a four legged chain with hooks on the ends of each chain. The largest link would be welded by welders after we mounted all the chains.Their was one blacksmith and helper that spent at least four months out of the year and more just doing these assemblies.It was cheaper for us to produce them then it was to buy all the parts assembled.
Other Blacksmiths produced pry bars , wrecking bars, air chisel bits, cold cuts, uncoupling rods for railroad cars, and numerous more 'everyday' items. It was more cost effective for us to use in house steel and manpower to produce the same items that were for sale in the market place and we could deliver 'on demand' as well.

At my last place of employment, it was an auto parts forging operation using drop hammers and closed dies. I was employed as a Blacksmith and I made the tongs that the hammer men used in the forging operation. Due to the nature of drop forging the men used to use a LOT of tongs on a daily basis.
I would average about 30 pairs of tongs a week(new) in addition to repairs to existing tongs(10 to 15 pair).A lot of the time the tongs were damaged beyond repair thus the need for replacements(rookies and bad hammer men). I also made all the cold chisels, pry bars, hand hammers,pin punches and numerous other hand tools for use in the forge, maintenance and tool room.
In addition I used to heat treat all the tooling (cold coining dies, hot trimmers,shear blades etc) that were used in the operations.
Although it is true that automation has taken over a lot of the work that the blacksmith used to do there is obviously still a need and a desire for the trade to continue. If the need wasn't there I am sure that a site such as IFI would not be growing at the rate that it is and the blacksmiths that have been at the trade as long as they have would no longer be doing what they are. We are a 'specialized' breed of tradesman and have been for hundreds of years and I for one still see a demand for our skills even in this day and age.

Terry

Although not generally known to the public, there are still many 'Blacksmiths' working in the industrial sector.I believe that there are probably a good deal more of them working in European countries than there are in the Americas, but they are still working here as well. They have a Blacksmith shop at (formerly Algoma Steel), not sure of current name, in Sault Ste Marie On. Also I believe that (Stelco?) in Hamilton, On, Canada still has a shop as well. They have large power hammers and still do traditional blacksmithing even today. Most of the forging done is on a LARGE scale but still using traditional means. Up until three years ago, when my plant closed, I was working as a Blacksmith. I had a forge furnace, power hammer, anvil and blacksmith vice which were my tools of the trade. I have worked for twenty-seven years as an industrial Blacksmith, with the only difference between then and now is the size of the steel I work with. The techniques have remained the same as they have for hundreds of years with the only difference being that with advances in technology it has made the work easier to accomplish. therefore I believe that you could say the 'Modern Blacksmith' is no different than his counter-part of two hundred years ago with the exception that modern tools have just made his job a little easier.

Terry

In my experience in industrial Blacksmithing a Bolster was used to support material in some matter, such as bolster blocks in a power hammer which supported and anchored the various hammer dies, or in the use of a 'Header' machine. In the header machine the bolster clamped the material in place and a 'Header" struck the protruding end of the bar and formed the head shape. This is the same type of machine used to form button head rivits or hex head bolts etc.

Terry

There is a great deal of difference in starting a coal fire as opposed to a coke fire. In this instance I am referring to a pure form of coke that has been made in a proper coke making process. First if you are using coal, it is relatively easy to light due to the high levels of volatile compounds contained in coal. Not the least of which are benzene, toluene, light oils and tars. This is only a minor part of over 500+ compounds that are contained in coal. These compounds are easily driven from the coal initially by the relatively low temp. produced by burning paper and wood. It is what makes up the "smoke that you see coming from the fire when first lighting it up, and which bursts into flame so readily once mixed with air and an ignition source(spark from your fire). These gases burn significantly hotter than the paper or wood and are the greater part of raising the temp of the fire so quickly.

Coke which has been made in a proper coke making oven (airtight) is the same coal that many of us use but has been heated to about 1800 degrees F for up to 8 hours and all the volatile chemicals in the coal have been driven off and collected in a by-products plant where they are broken down into a useful form for sale to other industries. After the coking process what remains of the original coal is what is called coke and which is about 95% pure carbon. This product takes a good deal more heat intensity to make it begin to burn after which it will be self sustaining provided it has a constant flow of air. If you turn off the air for any real amount of time the coke fire will go out. One other thing that should be known about coke fires is that they produce tremendous amounts of CO. That is why it is produced for use in Blast Furnaces as the fuel source. The CO given off by the coke is part of the chemical process that causes the reduction of the iron oxide ore in the furnace to be reduced to pure iron.

When a coal fire is burning the yellow smoke and also yellow flame are the burning of the chemicals in the coal. When burning true coke(pure) any flame that is visible is pale blue in colour. The pale blue flame is produce by burning Carbon Monoxide (CO)

Terry

Both pieces are excellent Mike! Roses are never the same twice (either in nature or made) and each has its' own character. That one is really nice!
I also love the table and the fact that it is simple in design. A lot of times a simple design such as your choice for legs is far more aesthetic than something which contains a number of scrolls etc. which draw the eye to the decorations alone rather than the overall piece, at least in my humble opinion. Well Done!

Terry

Very nicely done! I also like to add leaves to mine. I think it just adds to the overall effect.

Terry

ptree is correct about the heaters in forge shops. My last place of employment was a closed die forging shop making auto parts and all the heaters and hammermen wore the #3 welders green lenses. They forged parts at 2250 F and spent 7 hours a day staring into the LARGE billet heating furnaces without ANY ill effects at all.

Terry

JR., Thats what this forum is all about, posting how you do things.We all post very similar things at one time or another. It is just a matter of showing how we do things and many times it is identical, or nearly so, to the way someone else has already done it. I don't believe anyone on here would be offended. Besides sometimes it may seem identical but you may do things slightly different and that sets you apart(you put your own 'twist'(sic) on things.

Terry

I would agree with you on that one Dan! I have several pages of notes on quick shop calculations for various types of work some of which are ;
Calculations for: Links, shackles, clams,hoop, coned hoop(top dia. smaller than bottom dia.), bevel clam,angle iron rings..etc. That is just a sample of some of the things I have quick calculations for as well as all the standard area, volume, capacity type calculations as well as the metric conversion charts for decimal, drill sizes, temperature and such. It could be a significant resource place.

Terry

The place where I took my apprenticeship, we had what we referred to as helpers. Each Blacksmith had their own helper who worked in conjunction with him. One job the helper would perform on a regular basis was that of a striker. Many of the smaller jobs that we forged on the smaller hammers required finishing work on the anvil after rough forging under the power hammer down to near finished size and texture.One job we performed was forging guides for the rolling mills. These guides were made from flame cut plate steel but the ends of the guide had to be forge in order to fit in the profile of the rolls being used. The initial forging was done under the power hammer to get the guide down to rough thickness and profile. Then by use of a hand flatter and a stiker using a sledge hammer the blacksmith would finish the guide to the correct dimension. The Blacksmith would hold the tongs fastened to one end of the guide in one hand and place and move the flatter into the correct spot to be struck by the helper. Thus they would bring the guide down to the correct shape and size to fit the profile of the rolls, followed by a finish grinding with a hand held grinder.
This job was one of the final learning phases of the apprentice because it required good forging skills not only under the power hammer, but also the finishing work on the anvil. A good helper (striker) was invaluable to the Blacksmith and the senior helper was always assigned to the apprentice for this part of his training. A good helper is every bit as much a teacher to the apprentice as is the Blacksmith and they were held in high regard in our shop!

Terry

I totally agree with Dan! This is probably THE premier Blacksmithing site on the web! That goes without saying if you recognize the fact that there are 50+? countries represented here. As for the administration I don't think there are two more dedicated people than Glenn and Andrew as the main admins., but also all those who are willing to share their time and knowledge with everyone else. There is nothing better than a Family based community. Hats off to all!

Terry

Welcome Stampman to the best site on the web. Lots of helpfull and knowledgeable people on here and from your introduction I would say you are going to be a welcome addition. There is quite a bit of interest in making 'touchmarks' around this site and it sounds like you may be one of the 'go-to' guys! Once again... welcome!:D

Excellent restoration job. Very nice!

Looks right fine to me! Basic can have as much appeal as highly ornamental works. Sometimes you can get too fancy and it actually detracts from the original intent of the piece. Well done!

I agree with Mark on these chisels. I have made a lot of these chisels at the last shop I worked in. It was a closed die forging shop that made auto parts (universal joints, connecting rods etc.). The dies were made in house in our own tool room, using the EDM method. The carbon electrodes used to sink the die impressions had a hole in the centre of the electrode that allowed the EDM oil to flow through to 'flush' the particals form the forge cavity when being burned. This left a small pillar of steel in the finished cavity of the die. I made those chisels for the die finishers to get at the base of the pillar of steel to cut it off at the bottom of the forging cavity prior to final polishing of the die for production. I made ones with a curve in the point as well as diamond shaped, straight and other odd shapes depending on the shape of the cavity of the die and the depth. Some very interesting and at times challenging designs needed, but thats what kept the job interesting.:)

Looks good for a first forging ever! Now you have a bit of an idea what steel feels like under your hammer! You can now look at it and figure out what you want to do to improve your next attempt. One step at a time. Keep at it as it only gets better each time around as you learn hammer control and temperature for forging. Good work!

Looking for any Eastern Ontario Blacksmiths on this site. I am aware of a few but can't remember all who have posted on here. I would like to see if there is enough interest in maybe forming an Eastern chapter of OABA. Many of the hammer-ins held under OABA happen in the southern region of the province and can make it very difficult for members in the Eastern half to attend. My thoughts are to maybe have our own hammer-in around this section of the province. We would contact OABA and see if we could be set up as a chapter.

I feel that perhaps if we could arrange some hammer-ins that were no more than a couple of hours drive away that it would give people around here more opportunity more meet with like minded individuals for learning and fellowship.

If interested in this post a reply here so others will know and PM me with some contact info.

As a further note if you know of other Blacksmiths( or aspiring Blacksmiths) that are not on this site contact them as well. I am aware of some others in my area that are not on-line and I will be contacting them as well.

Terry

Cobra,
If you have a small air compressor look at getting a die grinder. Some don't use much more than 4 cu ft of air to operate and you can get a variety of stones to use as well as various carbide or diamond burrs for real aggressive stock removal. There are several grades of stones that range from aggressive to polishing grits and with a diamond block you can shape the stone to fit the cavity you are trying to grind. They also come in a large variety of diameters and shapes to begin with and you can probably buy them to suit your purpose.

Welcome Kate. Great site and great people here. I am sure you will be more than happy you joined. Great 'flowers'!

Yes they are. If you are logged in to the site already all you have to do is click on the chat at the top of the page and you should be taken into the chatroom automatically. If you are not already logged in before you click on the chat, will be presented with a log-in screen to enter your user name and password,and you should then be logged in. I have never had a problem with this before. Not sure what happened in your case though.

Welcome furnace1! You have found one of the best sites of its kind on the web. Lots of info and plenty of help when needed! Enjoy

This may have been covered in another thread at some point but maybe for the newbies it might be an idea to bring it to the fore-front again. What do you use to start up your coal forge? Some use paper, some wood shavings etc.

I use lint from the dryer to light mine! I collect the lint from the trap of the dryer and keep a bag of it out in the forge. To light the fire I take three small balls of lint, dip them in a bit of kerosene ( or paint thinner) add a few sticks of ceder (old shakes or shim stock work really well) cut into short pieces of about an inch or so. I set these in the bottom of the firepot and light the lint, turn on a bit of air to get a hot fast flame, then add some coke on top. I let it go with a low air flow for a couple of minutes, add more coke then crank up the air! I generally have a full workable fire in ten minutes and the lint and ceder burn up completely with no residue to interfere with air flow or contaminates in the fire.
How do you do start yours and what is your success rate for a first try?

My method works about 99% of the time!

The lint works well for summer camping fires as well if you dip it in melted paraffin and let it harden. Great firestarter!

Thanks Frosty!