TASMITH

Mark,
You are correct that forging does add strength to the forged piece in the alignment of the grain and, no, heat treating does not nullify this effect. the forged piece still retains the improved strength as opposed to a cast piece where all the grain is random and uniform throughout the piece.

Terry

The proposed changes of US Customs will put several workers at extreme risk in their jobs!
I know for a fact that here in Canada that ANYONE who works on water for a living MUST carry a knife that can be opened with one hand only in the event that they become entangled in a rope and be pulled into the water! IT IS THE LAW! My son works for a marine business that works on the ST Lawrence river and they were checked by Dept. of Labour Safety officers one day this passed week and the first question they asked in regard to safety equipment was if EVERYONE on the working barge had one of the one-handed opening knives on their person. The knives must also have a clip to hold them at the top of their pocket so they don't have to reach down into their pocket to try and get it out. This was made law here in Canada for a reason. IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO SAVE LIVES IN THE PAST! I agree with Steve in that you should fight the proposed changes as it will definitely put people at EXTREME risk if it is brought into effect!

Terry

Very well written article giving a good insight to both sides of the working world.The fact that a tradesman does not attend College or University and does not get a degree from said institutions, does not mean that he is less educated than those that do. If one takes into account the number of hours one spends learning his/her craft and compares those hours to the number of hours spent in the schools learning to obtain a degree, they would find that they have put more time and training into learning the craft than required to earn a degree.
Apprenticeships in trades generally run from 3 years (6,240 hrs) to at least 5 years (10,400 hrs) and in some specialized trades more than 5 years, and involve schooling as well.Even after these hours are put in there usually remains another year or two of "improvership" before you become classified in your chosen trade.These hours are put in on a continuous basis with just one or two vacation weeks a year as opposed to summer vacation, spring break, Christmas break etc. I think that most trades after completion including a number of years additional experience are the equivalent of a Masters degree from College or University and some even attain a level of skill equivalent to a PHD.
I think that one reader comment summed it up very well with a quote from a Danish proverb;

"You can do the work of the mind without the hand, but you can't do the work of the hand without the mind"

Terry

Yep you are correct in the clearance for the doors. your thought of going through the inner frame to steel frame is a good thought. I may look at drilling and tapping some holes in the steel frame with corresponding holes through the inner frame of the fireplace doors. that way I could undue the bolts to remove the brass frame if necessary.

Good thought there Ten hammers. Sometimes you just need a little nudge to get the brain thinking in a different way. Sometimes I get focused on something and can't see the forest for the trees!

Much obliged.
Terry

Had a big indoor yard sale at our local arena a couple of days ago. I managed to pick up a few goodies but happen to see a set of solid brass fireplace doors for sale for $70. Didn't have enough money(after my other purchases) so had to pass them by. Well as luck would have it, I went down to the local arena with the wife(she happens to be the Recreation Administrator for the town:D) and here are these fireplace doors sitting out back by the dumpster. They had marked them down to only $10 and STILL didn't sell them:o. She checked with the people who ran the yard sale and they assured us that yes, they were out there for the dump and if we wanted them to take them. So into the truck they go!

Now for the problem! The doors are a little tall and a bit too narrow to fit my fireplace. The height is no problem as I can just remove the brick from the front hearth and put in thinner ones to fit for height. For the narrower sides. I am going to make a steel frame to fit in the fireplace opening (which is a steel insert) and weld it into place, with an opening to fit the doors properly.

All of that is not hard to work out. The real problem lies in attaching the doors to the steel frame. The outside face frame of the doors is 1/4" thick solid brass and as you can see in the attached picture there are no holes in it and I don't want to drill any and spoil the look.

Any thoughts on attaching the doors firmly to the steel frame so they won't move after installation? The doors weigh between 50 to 60# and are solid, with the glass in excellent shape(needs to be cleaned) and the interior screen doors are in perfect shape as well.

Would really compliment the fireplace if I could get them installed. Any and all suggestions welcome.

First off I would like to thank Robert(AKA Quenchcrack) for starting this thread.You have brought up very valuable points in regards to postings on this forum. Well said!

Secondly, to Glenn and Andrew for developing this site and all the efforts put into maintaining and improving on it. In my opinion it is one of the most informative and well run sites on the Internet! Also Steve Sells and the other Moderators of this site for their hard work and efforts in helping to keep order in the midst of chaos! A tremendous job well done by all!

It can be difficult at times for senior members on this site to see the same questions posted time and again on various subjects as well as misplaced questions in the wrong part of the forum. As Glenn has stated however, It is the very First time on this site for a lot of Newbies and I think they can be forgiven for posting questions that have been posted and replied to several times already or even having posted in the wrong spot. Most of them seem to catch on pretty quickly however to the way the forum is set up and try and post properly in the future.

Most senior members are patient with the newcomers and properly address their questions by pointing them to the appropriate thread containing the information they require and/or responding yet again with an appropriate answer. It is the unfortunate few that do not seem to read the reply that is posted and will post the same or similar question again in another portion of the forum.Sometimes it may be that they don't understand the response for whatever reason but if you post the question again please clarify your reason for asking again.

A lot of times you may be directed to a thread which has the answers already posted on the subject in question. This helps the moderators and the people of this forum from having to take the time to cover something that has been covered extensively and frees them up to answer new questions or comments on something new, and at the same time gives the person asking the question an opportunity to read good informative information.

I am a Blacksmith who has had the opportunity to serve an apprenticeship. I spent 7,280 hrs and three years of night school and a further 3,060 hrs "improvership" to get my ticket. I spent thirty years working as a Blacksmith in the industrial sector, working primarily on power hammers and doing heat treating.The majority of my experience involved making tools, some of which were specialized for use in the primary steel making industry and in a drop forging operation.

When people post questions on the forum, I will respond only with the particular part of the trade that i am experienced in. Although i have thirty years experience in the trade, I will not attempt to answer questions on knife making as I have no experience with making knives myself. Many aspects of this trade have their own sub set of skills required and Knife making is a prime example. Yes it involves forging but their are many different methods for achieving this that take practice and is a specialty in its own right. If I was going to begin making knives I would post questions to those I know have been doing it for a number of years and have mastered many of the little "tricks" of the trade.Newbies on the forum have no idea as to who has the knowledge or skills best suited to answer their questions and so post their questions to a general location such as Blacksmithing. If you take the time to read the responses you will soon discover who or where you should be looking or posting to to get the answers you seek.

Even with my training and experience I still look for information on the forum and have learned new things on a regular basis. I have discovered new ideas of things to make or do and some new methods of doing things that I never tried before. I am willing to share what I know but try and keep my responses based on what I know and done myself and have even offered my opinion on things that I have seen or experienced first hand. However I always try to be as accurate as possible and will often state that the response I have given is to the best of my knowledge and will give references if at all possible. I may not be entirely accurate sometimes and am more than willing to admit to my mistakes and stand corrected by someone who may know better.

I will also defer to someone who has more background in a particular field, such as a metallurgist in regards to heat treating of something or the composition of steels as that is their field of specialty and my experience is based strictly on those metals and heat treatment that I have dealt with in my career.

I think we all learn something from this forum and we should all make the effort to try and keep it as responsible and truly informative as possible. I feel it is one of the best forums of its type on the "Net" and would like to thank all who post to it!

Time to get off the soapbox!

Next

Terry

A new thread posted today by Johannes has brought to mind a subject that I feel is of particular importance to newbies and young Blacksmiths. That is the issue of your health and Blacksmithing. In Johannes case he didn't say that he received his injury in his forge, but the type of work he does in there can aggravate it and greatly extend his healing process. Frosty has stated that he was injured at one time but started back to work in his forge much too soon and ended up with a far longer recovery period than he would have if he hadn't pushed it.
A lot of us have probably done the same thing, particularly when we were younger (and more or less invincible...in our own minds anyway!) and as we have gotten older we again pay for our past transgressions (a polite way of saying foolish) as some of the old injuries come back to haunt us.I know that a lot of young healthy people figure that it will not happen to them or that they will just bounce right back(because they are young) but that is one of the quickest ways to ensure paying the price when you are older.

Another group that also needs to be aware of the physical aspects of the trade are those who have spent most of their lives doing non-physical jobs.
Many have no experience in heavy manual labour and others have no background at all in any type of physical work.This can be and for many of us is/was a very demanding physical trade. It some aspects of this trade you must be physically strong in order to handle some of the work.Technique is one of the biggest factors in working with heavy forgings on power hammers but a great deal of physical strength is also required.

However it is also demanding physically when you are doing lighter work on the anvil as well. A two pound hammer doesn't sound like much but if you are not familiar with hammering something for a good length of time, or not using good technique you can cause yourself serious injuries to your wrist and elbow. A 1 lb bar doesn't seem to be much weight, but clamp it in a pair of tongs and the weight is suddenly multiplied by the mechanical leverage of the tongs themselves.

If you are just starting out you must make yourself aware of the things around you that you may try and pick-up or move. Anvils are heavy as is that neat little potable forge you just built for yourself, and you must be aware of proper lifting technique before you go and move them.

This is a subject that I could go on with for pages but I will let others chime in here and add their bit. I do know that I speak from experience in the fact that your past will catch up to you. I have spent thirty years at the trade and now and the ripe old age of 58, I am on permanent disability with three degenrative disks, two herniated disks and spinal stenosis. My past indestructable days of youth have come back to haunt me and I hope that maybe I can help some others avoid the same fate.

Terry

David,

Welcome to the site! You are in good company here and great place for info.
By the way, you have lots of help right next door to you, so to speak. Rick Lapointe(Rikasso) lives in Kingston on Duff street(off Railroad) and I live out here in Lyndhurst. There are a few other Blacksmiths in the area as well. PM me and I can let you know about us.

Again, welcome:)

Terry

I worked as an industrial blacksmith for almost thirty years. Our main tools were the three large power hammers (1,000, 1,500 and 3,000 lb steam hammers operated on 250 lbs steam pressure). Most of our work was rather large scale or large runs of some tools (such as heavy pry bars). We used traditional forging technique and a varied number of swages. necking tools, stop blocks and many specialty hand held tools, depending on the product being made.
We made an endless variety of items and tools that are specific for the steel making and finishing dept. of a primary steel producer. we also made a lot of the traditional hand tools for use in the mills that you would be familiar with, including hand hammers, hot cuts, cold cuts, cold chisels, pry bars etc.

We used all the traditional methods of forging, (albeit on a larger scale than a home based shop) but they are the same as they were 200 years ago.The technology may have changed but the methods remain the same to get the same result.The biggest change in technology has been to enable larger scale forgings to be done with far less man power and in some cases to improve on the mass production of a single item. We also spent a good deal of time repairing items (mainly straightening) such as bent walking beams from mill re-heat furnaces, or straightening 20 foot long 1 1/2 rd rods for use in ladles as stopper rods.

My main point I'm trying to make here is that Blacksmiths may do a great variety of different types of work which can all be classified as traditional but their main purpose was to make something that would be used to serve another purpose.In the very early industrial age it was the blacksmith who made the parts for the machines that would eventually take over the work that they themselves were doing.It is quite ironic in a way, but it has not ever completely taken away the trade. There are still many blacksmiths worldwide that are still plying the trade and making their living at it and countless more that are still doing it for the love of the trade and if this site is any indication, there will never be a lack of interest or willingness to carry on.

Terry

At the shop were I took my apprenticeship we used signals to communicate with the operators of the power hammers we used. As the shop had three large power hammers running as well as a large header and overhead cranes it was quite noisy. Factoring in the noise of the heating furnaces (four of them), the size of the hammers(1,000, 1,500 and 3,000 lb) and the fact that the Blacksmith was anywhere from 3 to 8 feet away from the hammer operator(depending on hammer and size of forging) the only way to communicate was by signals. These were sometimes used on the anvil as well when the helpers were striking.
The signals used on the hammers were as follows:

1. Arm held straight out front, level with the shoulder, palm open facing down and held steady.

This told the hammer operator to lower the ram to the face of the forging and get a "feel" for the control arm position on contact with the forging. It also ensured the forging was level with the bottom die face when hit.

2. One nod of the head downward signaled the hammer operator to begin striking. Each successive nod of the head downward signaled the hammer driver to strike harder.

3. Shaking the head gently from side to side signaled the hammer operator to lessen the strength of the blow. Repeated until the hammer operator was striking the correct blow.

4.Lifting the head once upwards signaled the operator to stop striking the forging and keep the ram up.

5.Holding arm straight out palm down starting level with shoulder and slowly lowering arm told operator to slowly lower ram to top of forging and apply pressure to hold it in place or if using bending blocks to apply enough pressure to make the bend( used in making overhead crane hooks).

6. Arm straight out, palm facing up and raising arm up signaled driver to slowly raise ram and hold in position.

One of the most critical of signals was the one to "feel" the forging as often times the helper would be holding a flatter or some other tool on the forging under the hammer. By "feeling" it the hammer driver would ensure that the helper is also holding the tool level on top of the forging. this prevented the tool handle from "snapping" into position when struck by the hammer and causing serious injury.

Terry

A good first go around. Don't take the comments as criticism on the part of others though. The idea of posting something like that is to get feedback and a different point of view from your own. Everyone has a different view and see things differently and I am sure that it will help you see it in a different manner as well. I too feel the extended tongue is a bit much but as Frosty said a bit of a burnishing with a brass brush to give it more of a flame effect will dramatically change the look. Good job on it though just the same. It does inspire one to take a stab at creating something like that and that is really what this whole forum is about.

Terry

Very nicely done Frosty! As usual the Blacksmith can always make something new and useful from something someone else has discarded.I'm sure it won't take you too long to train it.

Terry

Welcome Northwolf. I have been to Cochrane before and it is great country up there. You have come to the right place if your looking for information on pattern welded steel. Plenty of knife makers on this forum that do beautiful work and are very knowledgeable about pattern welding. You will find all the answers you need here. I would advise though that you start with the metal working lessons section on this forum and work your way up to pattern welding. There is a lot of basics of blacksmithing to learn before you get into something as exotic as pattern welding.Any questions you have, just ask away. The people on here are great and will help any way they can.

Terry

If it is a heavy enough cross section it would work as a flat anvil. Any large section will work, although it will tend to absorb energy from the blows, unlike a good hardened steel surface like an anvil. But if you are just starting out it would work until you could get something better, or if you are lucky enough to come across an anvil.

Terry

Good job on that! As you say though, you now have a list of things to do differently. That is a big part of the learning process. That is how you improve on yourself by taking note of what did or din't work. You are on the right track! Keep it up and you will master welding before too long.

Terry

That looks Great Mike. Nothing wrong with that at all!

I have to ask though, Road Runner commercial? As in "BEEP, BEEP?" and Wile Coyote?

Terry

Scott;
Here is a link to a you tube video made by British steel back in the early sixties I think. They present three videos all together on steel making. The computers they used in those days still used the old 'Ticker Tape'. There is more processing power in one of todays calculators than there was in any of those old computers but it is amazing what information they gathered. Todays modern steel making only differs in the better equipment and high tech computers but the process that were new technology then are still in use today.
Interesting old videos. Brings back memories to me:o.......LOL

YouTube - Study In Steel (Part 1 of 3)

This link is for part one and the next ones will come up at the end of it.
Seems to start out strange but just keep watching.
Terry

Looks to me like you have learned a lot already Bully. Some nice combination twists and use of different steels for different effects. Very nicely done. Keep up the good work. There is never an end to learning something new in this trade, either a new technique or type of steel or metod of doing it. The list goes on and on. Heck, after nearly thirty years in the trade I'M still learning things.

Terry

Welcome Dana. Best site on the web for learning about the blacksmith trade. Lots of talented and skilled people on here from all over the world who can answer just about any question you can ask.And as Frosty said, there is no better time spent by the kids than "quality time with the folks."

Terry

Welcome Iain. It seems that you have got bit by that nasty little old blacksmithing bug. He will be causing many dreams and desires to invade your life for some time to come. As for the better half being somewhat less than enthused, I am sure it won't take you long to convince her otherwise when you present some little trinkets and baubles that you have created by your own hand (roses are always good;)).Also read the post on here on how to sweet talk the finance dept. It cotains some valuable tips on how to get some tools you need to build your own smithy and keep you from having to live in it for a time. Good luck and happy hammering.

Terry

Welcome to one of the most informative sites on the web. Great people here with a full range of skills and experience. There have been a number of posts on here regarding setting up a smithy but it really boils down to how you like your own shop set up. But one of the best ways to get specific information is to post questions. You will get the answers you are seeking either directly or be pointed to an appropriate thread.

Terry

Very nicely done Mike. The cross at the top gives a real nice finish to it.

Like your twist Frosty. Good job working with a minimum of tools and a woodland forge! Just goes to show what you can accomplish when you need something and you don't have a well equipped shop on hand!

Very nicely done gentlemen!

Terry

Very nice HD.As Bob said it gives a nice "chain link" effect. Well done.
Terry

I have worked at a major steel producing plant and have seen all of those operations performed with the exception of the old open hearth operations. At the time that I started they had shut down the old open hearth in favour of the basic oxygen operations for steel making.My Dad however worked in the open hearth for 32 years and retired as a charger operator when they closed the open hearth down. I had a chance to see it in operation though as they used to hold open house tours of parts of the plant every year.
They no longer cast ingots any more now either as it is all done by continuous casting, but they still used that method when I worked there. They also don't use the old blooming mills either due to casting of slabs now.

I worked in maintenance in the plant and therefore did a tour in pretty much every dept. and have seen all of these operations first hand. It really is quite an orchestrated operation right from coke making, iron making,steel making, casting, hot rolling, cold rolling and finishing.

I have written a series of articles on all the operations for Glenn and hope that some time in the future that he may be able to find a spot on the forum for them. I think everyone would find them interesting.

Terry

Donnie
The rest of the story on the "I am King of my castle " is... "and I have my wifes permission to say so!":o

Terry