FieryFurnace

I applaud your fabrication abilities. You did a good job. I would point out that everything looks a little light-built. If parts begin to bend/break use, simply scale up the size of those parts. I would also recommend getting a larger steel plate to put under the base. You don't want it pounding itself into the dirt or putting a lot of pressure on such a small foot-print of concrete. Get a larger plate and bolt the whole unit down. Once again, nice job overall, just some things to keep in mind!

OK Surface Area Contact: This is the amount of area on your forging dies, that contacts the metal being forged! Your dies are whatever surface on your anvil that you are using, and whatever surface on your hammer that you are using. Here is a simple example of how surface area contact affects things. Take a knife and drop it on the floor, handle first! Does it stick? Of course not! Take the same knife, drop it on the same floor, from the same height, point first. Does it stick, or make some sort of mark? Why does it do so this time? What was different! The asnswer is surface area contact. There is less surface on the point than on the handle. Therefore all the force from the knife falling is directed into that tiny area, causing it to stick or dent the floor. Same with steel. Take a 5-pound hammer and smack a piece of metal with it flat on, with the metal sitting flat on the anvil. VERY LITTLE gets accomplished. Take the same metal, same hammer, same anvil! This time angle the metal so that it is only touching the corner of the anvil. Hit it at a corresponding angle with the very corner of the hammer face. You've just crammed all the forge from the entire hammer, into a little tiny area, instead of spreading it out over the entire hammer face. As an added bonus side affect to reducing surface area contact, the metal cools off faster. If only a tiny portion of the anvil and hammer come in contact with the steel, then there is less surface area to suck the heat out of the bar. If you lay the bar flat on the anvil, it cools off much faster! You'll hear and see all of that in March! You'll have a good time!

Hey usually it takes me a cut or two to get one of these tapered shank hardies to really seat itself into the particular hole I'm using it in. After that, one tap and it's in firm. It just needs to get "introduced" to the new hole, and get aquainted before it sits quietly. I use these curved blade hardies every day. I used mine today to make a couple cuts in 1.25-inch solid round car axle. Cuts like a charm. I directed during a cut we did at the ABANA conference. I was using a striker (Kainon Baumer,) and a top cut, along with the hardy. First off, I marked the location of the cut all the way around with a hand hammer. Then I used the top cut and striker to complete the cut. The material was 1.25-inch or 1.5 inch solid round axle material (4140 or so.) The cut was done in one heat, but the killer is, the top cut head came off twice because I did not seat it on the handle. I had to stop, pick up the top tool, replace it onto the handle, seat it back on the handle, and then go back to cutting TWICE, and still made the cut in a single heat.......with heat to spare! These things cut great and I'm looking forward to your video!

I haven't had that problem with mine, and I don't see why it would.

Hey thanks for the complement, and the critique. The reason I do my scroll tongs with the curved bits instead of the flat, is you can work with a wider range of stock thicknesses while still remaining in the "comfy" range of the tong handles. Flat bit, scroll tongs do not allow for this. To each his own though. (I have used both styles!) Thanks Brian! As always, it means alot coming from you!

True! Thanks for pointing that out!

I made the bolt tongs for a guy that wanted them. They hold 1/4-inch and 3/8-inch square and round stock, inline or perpendicular. Entirely forged to finish with the exception of rounding off the ends of the reigns and jaws with a grinder. The scroll tongs were not on the "to-do" list, but I burned the end off of one of my tong blanks, so I had a short piece. I torched a matching short piece off the coil spring, and made the scroll tongs. I did not use the power hammer at all on these. They were forged entirely on the anvil. The ends of the reigns were hot rasped instead of ground. They still need to be wire wheeled. I use a similar pair on a daily basis. I use spring steel on my tongs.

Can I ask the purpose of drilling the hole in the center as apposed to offset towards the edge?

So basically, if I'm making something out of 4140 and I go to a light straw temper, then when using 4150 I should use a heavy straw temper. Thanks for checking the specs! I don't have any charts here. Are there good charts online somewhere?

My steel yard has volumes of 4150 tool steel in a usable size. I typically use spring steel or 4140 for making top & bottom tools, tongs, and hammers. My question is, can I exchange 4140 for 4150? If so, what is the difference in the two metals. I'm guessing 4150 has more carbon and would require a higher temp range for tempering. Am I right? Can it be cooled the same? Thanks!

A concave punch would drive easily until it seated fully. Then the metal trapped beneath the punch would have no where to go. With a pointed punch, the material that doesn't get punched out, gets pushed to the side. A flat punch just plows through, and it's shape does not naturaly move the material out of the way. A concave punch would actually trap material. A chisel, moves all of the material creating the stretched area and the resulting cold shuts.

There are a lot of opions here, some good and some not so good. The basic idea with hammer techniques, anvil height, and forging, is do what works for you and what doesn't hurt you. Having said that, here are a few rules of thumb that are law when forging. A bigger hammer does more work, faster, using less energy......WHEN USED CORRECTLY! If you are hurting your arm with a 2-pound hammer, grab a 4 pounder, choke up on it, and swing slowly, lifting your hand high above your head as you forge. Choking up on the hammer allows the handle to act as a counter-weight, giving you the effect of a 4 pound hammer without the feel of a 4 pound hammer. (Study sword history and design....counterweight is key!) Swing slowly until you get comfy using the tool. Speed will come naturally with time. Get the hammer up high. If you are using short tiny blows, you will be trying to speed up the hammer with your arm, instead of letting the hammer gain speed as it falls onto the metal. Get the hammer high, and let it's own weight bring it down. Your arm should guide the hammer, not slam the hammer. When holding the hammer loosely, the hammer handle should pivot in your hand on your middle finger. Using a larger hammer, choked up on the handle, will teach your proper handle grip. If your anvil is too high, you will not be getting the full range of motion in your arm, therefore cutting down on the distance the hammer will fall before contacting the metal. Your arm will be bent too much, and you will not be utilizing gravitational pull on your hammer to it's fullest advantage. If your anvil is too short, you will do one of two things. You'll always be bent over it, putting excess strain on your back., or you will be over-extending your arm with a sort of "snapping" motion, as your arm extends fully and then has to "stretch" in order to reach the anvil. Neither of these are good! Where is the perfect height for your anvil? Experiement! Everyone is different, and where knuckle height is comfy for one person, it may not be for the next. I use a tripod steel anvil stand and bolt various thicknessess of wood to the feet, until I find a height I like. You can do the same with a plain anvil stump. Experiement until you are comfortable and can forge all day without pain. (Once you find your ideal height, bolt or stake the anvil stand and anvil down, VERY VERY firmly. ANY vibration is lost energy.) Knuckle height is a generaly used reference for proper height. The reason why is, when the anvil face is at knuckle height and you grab a hammer, when you lay the hammer face flat on the anvil, it adds length to your arm. This causes your arm to bend very slightly. However, once again, knuckle height is not a rule, it is a reference. Do not grip your hammer tightly. The anvil has natural bounce, or rebound that helps to pick the hammer back up. If you are overgripping your hammer, the shock of this bounce will go into your arm instead of the hammer. This will cause you to have to use more arm strength to pick the hammer up, as well as putting more strain on your arm. Hold a very VERY loose grip on the hammer. You are guiding the hammer to where you want to hit, not forcing it there.

Hi Aaron! No I did not use kiss blocks. You could, but with practice, you could do the trough lines on boths sides in one heat, and still just eyeball the depth. After the cheeks are forged and you go back in and planish the toughs, you can make slight depth adjustments as needed. Maybe if you were doing a large sledge or working with a very large power hammer, it would be nice to have kiss blocks.

NICE!

Sorry I missed your post there George. Thanks to Brian for answering. I also wanted the striking anvil for making tools in my anvil. First off, my anvil is too high for comfy striking anyway, and second of all, having a supplimental hole to make tools in, saves the wear on my anvil. Sure the anvil can take it, but might as well stay on the safe side. I don't get to do a whole lot of striking, director / striker work, or teaching, but when I do, the striking anvil as an indispensable tool!

Thanks! It turned out OK, and I am pleased. It's a cute little hammer. I made a little leaf pendant with it yesterday, as soon as I got the handle in. It took more heats, more blows, and more arm strength to forge smaller material into a leaf than it does to forge larger material with my 4.5 pounder. LOL

Thanks folks! I'm always talking to / demoing to people who don't know what hammers are, much less, anvils, forges, or blacksmiths. I tend to over describe everything so that someone who doesn't even know what a blacksmith is, can, in a matter of a few minutes, understand exactly what's going on when I'm demonstrating. I've not had much success with diagonal slitting/drifting. I've used the undersized and then true sized opening technique, and it helps but I still don't like the way it looks. However, I haven't done it more than a handful of times.

Finished! You can really see the chatter in these pictures. I could have ground that out before hardening, but I decided not to so that I can use it as an example to students of what improper tool alignment will do.

EGreen! I've posted a punching thread with pictures and an explination on how it all works. Hope you find it clear and helpful! Here is the link! http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/30265-punchingslitting-holes/

Someone aske me to expain why, when punching or slitting a hammer eye, you end up with a "plug" that comes out of the hole. I could have answered in the original thread, but I figured by starting a separate thread, I might add to the ease of others finding this info in later years. What is slitting and what is punching? Slitting is using a chisel to cut a hole in the middle of a metal bar (whether a tiny hammer blank or a 20 foot section of rail cap.) Usually these slits are used in conjuction with a drift used to open and then shape the hole. Hence the common technique, "slit and drift." Punching can refer to several types of holes used for different purposes. In this case I am referring to punching a rectangular slot for the purpose of being able to open and drift it into a round, square, or rectangular hole, just like in the slit and drift technique. In any form, square, round, or rectangular, punching remains the same. The type of punch I use for the hammer eye and for regular bar stock, is the punch and technique taught by Mr. Brian Brazeal. For thicker stock, a v-shaped punch is used, as this is easier to drive into the material. In thinner material, you can't use this shape, so a straight-cut slot-punch is used. Here is the v-shaped slot-punch! Side view! Straight on view! Here is the plug that this tool punches out. It is shaped just like the end of the punch! A flat cut punch looks like this on the wide side. On the thin side notice that there is a slight and very blunt bevel ground into the edge. This edge helps it move through the material easier than just a flat abrupt punch. Like the V-punch, the flat punch makes a slug that is the same shape as the working edge! Alright, so let's look at some cross section drawings to see what exactly is going on when you use a punch and when you use a chisel. Here is what a slot punch does (whether a V-shaped or a flat punch, it works the same,) as it goes through the metal. This is the first side as you drive the punch in. You'll go a good 75% of the way or more. Flip the stock, line it up, and go in the other side. If we take our stock and look at what the punch is doing on the thin side, this is what it looks like. The dotted lines shows where the material inside the hole, shears and falls out, giving you the plug. This leaves a clean, smooth hole from both sides, even if the slot-punch is slightly off alignment. The reason you get a plug is, as you drive the punch, most of the material gets pushed away to the side. A small amount of material gets pushed in front of the blade. The steep angle grind on the punch, shears the metal instead of cutting it out. What is the advantage of this? Let's look at some cross section drawings of the same hole, slit with a chisel instead of being punched. My drawings show a round blade chisel but it works the same with a flat one as well. First pass. Second pass. Now notice where we are now. There isn't any material to support the material being cut. From this point on, the material in the path of the chisel blade is not going to cut, it's going to stretch. Without something to support the material being cut, it will not cut. Here is an end view of how this looks! As the material stretches and your blade makes it through, you end up with this. I'm sure everyone has ended up with rags on the metal due to chisel cutting. If you are good at cutting, the rag is simply a sharp edge that needs to be forged down. If you aren't good at cutting you'll have to grind the rag off, or you'll end up with a "cold shut." A cold shut is a little pinched piece of metal that gets hammered into the material. As an example of a cold shut, take a piece of paper and put it on a bit of muddy dirt. Then jump on it. It's been pushed down into the mud, but it isn't part of the mud. Well you will have a really hard time grind this bur out of the inside of your hole. When you drift your hole, the bur will get pushed into the side-walls of the hole and form a tiny cold shut crack. See the next picture. This isn't anything I've made up. Try both techniques and see which one consistantly gives you a good clean hole! If you can consistantly get a rag-free, smooth, clean hole using a chisel......more power too ya! This is not a technique argument thread! I've used both techniques, and I find that I can consistantly get a good clean hole with the slot punch, so that is the technique I use.

Sure thing Brian! Thanks! EGreen: I don't have a picture of the punch right here in front of me, but I will get one later today, as well as a picture of the plug that gets punched out. Give me a bit of time, and I'll get you a detailed explination to help you understand. I'll try to have it up by this evening.

LOL that's why I didn't have them cut.....although that's not a bad price. I'm just a tight wad!

Here is a little Brian Brazeal style hammer I forged under the power hammers today. I used my air hammer to punch the hole and upset the faces. I used the tire hammer for the cheeks and trough lines. The power hammer dies for the cheeks and trough lines are 1-inch diameter top and bottom fullers, but they are only about 1/2-inch wide. They worked good, except that the dies are too long. I need to shorten them by about 1/4-inch. You can see a bit of "chatter" on the outer edges of the trough lines as a result of the excessive die width. I kind of like the rough cheeks, as it is a nice contrast. I have larger dies that I could have used to smooth it out with, but I kind of liked it, so I left it as is. The hammer is currently 2 pounds, 7/8 of an ounce. However, it still needs to be ground, hardened, polished, tempered, and handled. There will be weight loss from the grinding and polishing, and a little weight gain from the handle. This stock was 1 5/8 inch by 3 5/8 inch, 4140! I didn't get a picture of the plug, but it was a PRETTY plug!

If I recall correctly, on Brian's last anvil he drilled a true size hole and then drifted....I.E. drill 1-inch, drift 1-inch. He ended up with a bit of the drilled portion still visible. (I THINK here! I'm not 100% sure......I could be getting my facts wrong.) Check with Lyle, David Gaddis, or Brian. Drill 3/4 for a 7/8 hole. And also, make your drift about a 1/32 oversized to allow for shrinkage. I did 1/16 and that was too much....Brian did true size and the hole shrunk a hair.

Thanks Brian! It's a real pleasure! I'm hoping to have a couple students making hammers in the not-too-distant future! In the mean-time I am trying to build up a set of bottom tools that fits this anvil exactly!