billyO

22 hours ago, Skullandbonesforge said:

what you all think 

Looks like it's a solid forge weld, anyway.  

2 hours ago, Panik said:

what type of changes actually occurred.

Just another form of oxidation.  I'm not sure boiling water is hot enough to actually get to 'bluing' like your talking about.  

Do a search for rust-bluing or browning steel, it sounds like you were closer to doing this.

19 hours ago, Buzzkill said:

In your scenario, BillyO, you are only pointing the gun at other people who have also chosen to take the risk

I may be misunderstanding your point BK, but this is true only if you live alone and never interact with others.  As George pointed out:

16 hours ago, George N. M. said:

BK:  The problem is that the equation is fairly simple when it involves yourself,

19 hours ago, Buzzkill said:

If you think the risk is too great for you or others around you to leave the house, attend gatherings, or eat in public then don't do it regardless of whether it's "allowed." 

If only it were that easy.  If everybody had their own small farm where they could provide their own food, this might be possible.  Unfortunately that isn't the world we live in.

On 6/26/2020 at 9:48 AM, SLAG said:

I can think of electrostatic charges,

This is a big part of the effectiveness of surgical masks.  Which is why you can't wash them and have them still be effective.

On 6/26/2020 at 10:14 AM, George N. M. said:

Again, my own opinion is that all the folk going to bars, parties, the beach/pool, etc. are textbook examples of Darwinian natural selection.

While I agree, the problem is that they can transmit the virus to others for days before they become symptomatic.   

Ignoring the medical experts on this is just like playing Russian roulette, most folks will probably be OK and possibly never even know they have the virus.  Unfortunately it's not just yourself that you're pointing the gun at, but everyone else you interact with.

San-mai can be more difficult to make a decent looking blade than a standard damascus billet with more layers.  In order for it to look good (IMO), you have to keep the core centered in the billet while forging.  So make sure you flip the billet regularly to forge from both sides evenly, or you can make sure you change sides of the billet each heat, and don't lose track...

Good luck and be sure to post pics.

There's no

On 6/15/2020 at 2:21 PM, ThomasPowers said:

If you are offended; well it just helps prove my point.

Don't worry (I'm sure you're not), there's nothing you can do to offend me.

23 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

what you might consider respectful conduct may not be considered respectful by them

  *sigh*  I suppose that's possible.  But I'll err on the side of being kind, honest and respectful the way I was taught.  If you want to take offense, I apologize and expect the same kindness and respect while you correct my faux pas.  If, instead,  you choose to get offended and thus feel like I deserve less in return, then you are not worth my time, I will walk away and do my best to erase you from my memory.  

On 6/8/2020 at 9:04 AM, ThomasPowers said:

How you want to be treated may be extremely insulting to them.

Fair enough, I suppose.

But I tend to keep things simple, and I (and most people) want to be treated with respect and kindness.  If someone is insulted by that, then I'm not sure what to say, but I will do my best to limit my interaction with them.

.

On 6/4/2020 at 12:26 AM, Cas037 said:

 I thought there would be a generalised rule for most of the world. 

As far as I know, there is only one.  Treat everyone as you want to be treated.  

On 5/25/2020 at 4:26 PM, Marc1 said:

The choice of a lady playing the part of the male blacksmith is very PC

Especially seeing as how they had a male on the opposite side in stereo, showing that there is no gender for blacksmiths

On 5/5/2020 at 5:51 PM, Frosty said:

This is just a matter of a little practice

This is all it takes.  Don't look at the initial 'failures' as a waste of time so long as you pay attention and learn from your mistakes.  

On 5/5/2020 at 4:51 PM, JW513 said:

They don’t have to be perfect

Maybe not, but try.  It's easy to forge things  half-assed, much better to forge things well.  It's been said that 5 minutes at the anvil will save an hour at the vice (or grinder).  

18 hours ago, BillyBones said:

just grind them to shape

This is possible too.  Again, I'd suggest making them as perfectly and exactly identical as possible.  This shoudl be relatively easy, and as Frosty mentioned, either method should take only a minute or 2 max for each one of those.  

On 4/21/2020 at 8:16 AM, mpc said:

on to the anvil for some firm, straight blows (so it didn’t shift)

Good morning, mpc.  Any luck?  Another thing I thought of that I didn't see mentioned was the importance of proper hammering pattern when using flux.  When I was using borax for flux, I'd make sure that I tapered the edges of each piece when grinding and prepping the billet, to give the flux an easier escape path for the weld-setting hammer blows.  I would also make sure that my first hammer blows ran down the center of the billet, forcing the flux out to the sides (and preventing it from getting trapped and creating a void in the billet), before hammering on the sides.  They say pictures are worth 1000 words:

5 hours ago, JK Scotland said:

I just don't know what the colours mean!

Welcome to the addiction, JK. 

If you haven't yet, do a search for colors of hot steel, and realize this is just a representation.  How much ambient light you have in the shop will change how the colors look.  If you can keep the piece over 1600F (870C) when forging, you can avoid much of the scale.

Those look great, Ron!  I'm going to have to bookmark this page.

Thanks for sharing.  

20 hours ago, Shabumi said:

it looks less square than it really is.

19 hours ago, Frosty said:

Is this a New Math thing?

Thanks for sharing the chuckles over my morning coffee, Frosty and Saibumi. 

A couple of things stick out to me, based on my reading of your description of your process.

The first thing that came to mind is what others have mentioned, specifically what was the atmosphere in the forge?

Secondly:

On 4/5/2020 at 7:38 PM, mpc said:

gave them a quick rough up on the belt grinder

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Did you get all the mill scale off each piece?  When I make a billet, I don't worry about cleaning with acetone, I just make sure that I've ground each mating surface down to bare steel before putting the pieces together (and avoid touching said surfaces with my bare fingers after grinding to keep oils off).

Finally:

On 4/5/2020 at 7:38 PM, mpc said:

gave it several firm smacks with the hammer and then back into the forge

This is hard to know what you did.  The first hits with a hammer have to be firm enough to 'set' the weld, but not too firm to cause any movement (shearing) between the layers which will prevent welding.  I usually do 2-3 heats where I'm only focused on setting the weld and not trying to do any forging to shape until I feel (and I'm referring to actually feeling through the hammer, as opposed to some other abstract 'feeling') the billet turn into one solid piece opposed to a number of layers of individual pieces.  Only then should one start forging to shape.

Apart from feeling the billet turn solid, you can also see if the whole piece cools down and changes color uniformly or if some parts seem to cool off faster than others, indicating separate pieces.

On 4/5/2020 at 7:38 PM, mpc said:

after I let it cool and did a little grinding . . . but there are clear lines between the layers

Also, not sure what you mean here.  How deep did you grind?  If all you did was grind off the scale, it's possible to still see the weld lines and still have a solid weld.  

Here's an example of a billet I was working on last year that shows what I'm talking about.  This was a solid billet after welding but before drawing out.

You can easily make out the layers of 1080 and 15N20 but the weld is solid.

Hello all.  I've finally been able to get the forge running, once to dry it out and once for a test of the controller today.  Hopefully we'll get to some forging soon.

Here's links to a couple of videos of the controller in action today.  The second one is sped up to save time if you want.

Good evening, all.  Here's the progress from this week.  I've got everything plumbed in (except the propane tank), wired up and just now plugged it in and flipped the power switch on.  No sparks!  The main NC valve clicked open, the blower started, and when I turned the high flow switch to 'ON', that valve clicked open, and clicked shut when turned back to off.  Nothing happened when I turned it to 'AUTO', but I'm not sure if that's something I need to worry about yet because I haven't done anything to program the PID.

I think it's time to hook up the propane and fire it up!

Well done, my brother!

My only complaint is that I'm now late in starting my errands for the day.....

No head hanging needed, Dan.  Hold it high!

12 hours ago, D.Rotblatt said:

 I may be completely wrong - so I'll be interested to see how yours turns out!

Me to on both points.  Hopefully it'll be early next week when I can post a video.....

11 hours ago, D.Rotblatt said:

Why don't you use a Naturally Aspirated (venturi) burner?  With forced air, the air will be cooling off the forge when the gas is off creating more temperature fluctuation, and introducing oxygen to the forge - increasing scaling.  

Hi Dan.  Thanks for the thoughts.  You do realize you're opening a can of worms when bringing up the venturi/ribbon burner question, right?  But I won't go there....

Yes, I think you're right about having cold air entering the forge without fuel, which is why I'm having in a Low flow (or idle, if you will) line that will allow a minimum amount of fuel to keep the flame going and the PID will add more fuel through the Hi flow line to increase the temp as needed.

1 hour ago, Buzzkill said:

Sure.  you probably just wouldn't want the blower on full blast at startup, which is what would tend to happen with a simple on/off PID setup.   It might be ok though.

I think it will be OK, because over the past number of years that I've been using my forge, I've pretty much left the air flow alone, unless when welding Damascus billets, then I cut the flow enough to create a reducing atmosphere. 

If the paddle switch is wired only to the main NC valve, will this be an issue?  The SPST main power switch starts the blower, so as long as that's working,  the gas solenoid should open, no?

57 minutes ago, Buzzkill said:

All you need is an arm in the air flow with a paddle on it that will move with even light air flow

Now that's an intriguing thought...  Thanks Buzzkill!  I'll start looking into it.

Hello Hans.  Thanks.  While I can't see how either of those would be a bad idea, I don't think they are necessary for my application.  (Well, at least in regards to the break protection, as I strap my 100# tank to the shop wall to prevent accidental tipping or moving.)

And I think the flame arrestor is taken care of through the NC valves.  As long as the blower is operational, (keeping the gas supply valve open) there should be no risk for a backflash to occur?  (I am thinking about trying to figure out how to wire the NC valves in such a way that if the blower fan stops working for some other reason than loss of power, they close.  But so far, everyone I've talked to has said this would involve adding some sort of flow meter to the blower output, and that will have to be a future project for me.)