01tundra

I actually chucked a hole saw bit in my drill press last night with the center bit removed, was going to try clamping the metal sheet down to a wood platform I'm building that will clamp into the drill press vice. So you're recommending that I use the hole saw to drill a hole through something like 3/4" particle board and then clamp that on top of the metal to act as a guide to help prevent the hole saw from trying to walk on me, correct?

Yeah I've been working multiple angles on this. Haven't thought about test caps for pipe......kind of sad to admit, considering I design process piping systems for a living :D! And pre-domed shape would be a bonus for what I'm doing with them. I'm still searching around, there's a local scrap yard that handles a lot of industrial scrap metal from stamping and milling processes. I've got a pretty good local source on new metal as well, I can pick up new 4'x10' sheets of 22 ga for $74 plus tax. According to the cad drawing I just did, I should be able to get (490) 3-1/8" or (297) 4-1/8" diameter circles out of one sheet, that would put the material cost at $0.17 or $0.27 each, respectively. I haven't been able to find anything else around that cheap. The local scrap yard sells at $0.25/lb flat rate, so I'll have to do the math to see if that would be a cheaper route, provided they have something that will work for me. I'm going to head out to the shop now and see what I can do free hand with the plasma cutter and a pattern guide. Thanks.

Yeah, I've considered the water jet option as well. Was hoping to come up with something I could do in my own shop, but I may end up just cutting them with tin snips if I can't find a reasonable rate with a water jet. I do know a few people who have water jet and plasma tables, so I'll look into those options. One of our clients is a local metal fineblanking company that does this type of stuff, but as mentioned, they do huge projects for the automotive industry and unfortunately my friend that managed the plant got transferred back to another plant.......would have been great to sneak in there one night and knock out about 500 of them in a matter of minutes with one of their blanking presses :D ! I do have a plasma cutter and have been toying with the idea of making an adjustable, magnetic-based circle cutting roller guide similar to the one that Hypertherm and others sell, but getting down around 3" dia gets a little tight. If I can work it out, I figured I could clamp several layers together and knock out several per cut. My other thought is to just use a circle template as a guide and free hand cut them like I do on thicker metal, may have to drill a small starter hole to keep them relatively clean. If the edges are a little off I can straighten them up on the vertical belt sander afterwards. I really appreciate the input, saved me a bunch of wasted time & energy messing with trying to make a tool that wouldn't work well.

I have to cut 3" dia. and 4" dia round blanks out of 22 Ga. steel sheet, I'm using them for a product we make, so this will be an on-going thing for many years (hopefully). I've been drawing out the pattern with a template and then cutting them out with tin snips, but I would like to find something a little easier on my wrists. The other night I noticed that I have a piece of 0.120" wall DOM (C1020) tube in my scrap pile that has the correct O.D. and was wondering if it would be realistic to file/grind the inner edge of the lip until I had a relatively sharp edge and then heat treat the cutting end of the tube. I was thinking that I could lay the sheet steel in my 20-ton hydraulic press and stamp the circle blanks out since the sheet metal is relatively thin? If it wouldn't really hold up to the abuse, I may be better off having a machinist make me a set of cutting dies. Thanks

I picked up a small vine spring swage from them, welded a 1" x 1" x 3" long piece of solid square stock midway along the spring so I can use it in the anvil hardy hole, works pretty good for me even with a 2.5 lb hammer. This is the only picture I have of it, but you can see it hanging on the left side of the post under the vice.

The Fiddler's Grove Blacksmith Association in Lebanon, TN would be something good to look into. We have classes every Tuesday night from 7:00-9:00 PM. Great group of people to work and learn with. I'm sure you probably already know this, but Lebanon is only about 20 miles East of Nashville. The smithy is located in the Wilson County Fair Grounds. You can just show up on any Tuesday evening to get all the details and check out the smithy.

I was actually talking about that last night. I have a guy local to me with a portable saw mill set up, had him rip some of my WRC timbers for me for a really reasonable rate. Now I'm wishing I would have built my kiln longer than 8'.....knew that was going to come back to bite me. If I can butt the ends together decently, I have enough red & white Oak laying on the ground for about 4 buildings right now.

Thanks. Yeah I definitely agree on the roof overhangs not really being far enough out, the problem is that much further and the supports would be too far out into my driveway. I'm hoping to be able to push the smithy back a little further, so this would be worst case. Thomas - Great idea on finding used tin, we have our share of hail storms and since I'll be covering over the tin it doesn't really matter what it looks like.

Thanks, good info. So I would have to install a 6" and 12" flue dampers prior to them joining to make it operate correctly? I was just hoping to finally have a home for the little Vogelzang stove I got as a Christmas present last year. I agree with the metal siding idea, it's just hard to convince the boss on that one since it will be seen on three sides where it's going to be built. I could though make the side that the forge & hood will be on all tin, that may be a good option since that's where most of the hot stuff will be and it's the only side that can't been seen from the house or road. Not to mention that reclaimed barn wood is obscenely priced around here.......... May be able to sell the back wall as metal too......heck, that's a 50/50 sacrfice and marriages are supposed to be all about meeting in the middle, so I think this would be a fair approach :D ! I guess another option would be to tin all four sides and then go over the front and road side with barn wood. That way the interior would be all metal. It would cost more up front, but not near as much as replacing a burned down building and tools........

I've decided to free up some of my existing shop space and move all my forging tools into a new building across the driveway. Since space is unfortunately tight on our lot, this is the max size I can squeeze in, but since my main shop is only a few steps away it should work out OK for me. Going to build it similar to a pole barn with vertical wood siding and a tin roof. Planning on piping my small wood buring stove into the main forge hood flue to be able to have heat when the forge isn't fired up. I'm starting to collect building materials, hope to find some barn wood siding locally that I can reuse.

2" x 4" x 1/4" legs filled with sand, 1/4" plate feet on top of 2" Red Oak blocks, 1" thick mounting plate, 2 layers of 30# roofing felt between the anvil (155 lb. Hay Budden) and mounting plate, 3/8" drop-in concrete anchors & Grade 8 bolts fastening the stand to the slab. Fabrication details - http://www.iforgeiro...l +stand +build

I ended up picking up a block of #2 & #3 Roma Plastilina clay. The #2 is really hard to work with because it's so firm, the #3 would definitely have to be pre-heated to work with. This past Saturday I was trying to use the clay to figure out some difficult bends and it wasn't really working too good for me, so I started looking around the shop for something else to use, what I came up with may seem silly, but it worked like a charm for me. I bought some Kwiktwist ties from Lowes a few months ago for securing loads in my truck bed, I keep them on the two back security hoops in the bed and they've proven to be one of the handiest things I've ever bought. They're basically a huge twist tie with a foam cover over it. The ties can be formed in any shape, what I ended up doing was using a second one to mimic the shape I was trying to make and then straighten it out to know how much stock to start with. It worked so well for me that I figured I'd share http://www.kwiktwist.com/Home.html

In an attempt to step slowly away from my mig welder and grinder habits, I am trying to come up with some different ideas on building a small stand somewhat similar to what I've done in the past. The stand pictured is approximately 10"-12" long and around 4"-5" wide. The sizes will vary on a case-by-case basis, but will all be around this size. The bar stock diameter on this one is 3/8". I was thinking that I could forge a piece of steel relatively flat, and then split the ends to be able to roll them up and downward. Punch the body of the flat stand ends just prior to the slit and feed the round rails through the ends, possibly upset the round stock to hold it all together? Based on my limited forging experience, that's my first thought, but I can shoot holes in it at the same time, such as the upset ends could look really bad if not done properly (or could look bad regardless). Some of the previous stands I've built have a second side bar running parallel to the one shown, but slightly above and inboard of the one shown below to give more of the look of two sticks/logs stacked from the sides. I really need to keep the upper radiused portion, so I'm also good sticking with the round stock for the ends, but possibly forge weld them instead of relying on the mig? Seems like theres an easier way to accomplish the same result, but I'm not coming up with it. I could start with a larger piece of round stock (1/2"?), split the ends, and round the upper and lower branches and then draw the center down to a smaller diameter to match close to the 3/8" I have now. That would definitely take some trial and error since the entire end piece would be growing in length as I draw the center section down to the desired diameter, but it would result in a single forged end piece that required no welder. Maybe flatten the ends of the center round section enough prior to the splits to feed the side bars through? I like the idea of having the round side pieces protruding through the end plates, regardless of what the end plates end up being, I just personally like that kind of look. I can also drop the round side bar diameter down from 3/8" to 5/16" if need be. On the stand I have pictured, I'm sure it's painfully obvious that it was all made mechanically & cold, including using a chop saw and my roll bender for the end sections. I have since started putting my own vine pattern on the round stock with a spring swage and bending the end pieces by forging them in a 5" radius hardy swage. But I'm still doing all the joinery in a less than desired way. At first I was pre-cutting the ends, but found it was hard to hold onto them while bending and it was throw the bends off some due to the tongs interfering with the swage. I also got tired of cleaning up the mess left by the chop saw. I've since started using longer pieces of stock, bending the radius, and then hot cutting on the hardy. I wasn't using proper cutting techniques at first and was having to do a lot of post grinder clean up on the ends. I've since corrected the cutting problem, so I guess this is the most productive way to make the bent end pieces. But again, I'm open for alternate styles on the end plates as well. I've also started experimenting with different patinas other than spray paint, such as brass brushing, beeswax, wood stain, gliders paste, plum brown, etc. As always - any input, ideas, opinions, criticisms, etc. will be much appreciated! Thanks.

Not directly related to blacksmithing, but as a professional licensed mechanical engineer with 16+ years of experience, I can tell you that I've worked with many designers who do not have any formal education in engineering and can design circles around many that have the qualifications on paper. Certifications do not guarantee that one person is more capable than the other. Sure training and education are beneficial, sometimes vital, but it's no guarantee. I like to prove myself through my work, rather than waiving certificates and degrees in front of ones face. I also make it a point to never look down upon a person who isn't as educated as myself on paper, as many times I have something to learn from their personal experiences that I was never taught during my formal training. Some of the best design skills I've learned over the years have come from people who are not certified as engineers........just some food for thought.

Thanks. Do you think the consistency matters much? I was thinking that the #3 "medium firm" may be a good choice.

I had a lot of my questions answered after working all day yesterday with member MOblacksmith0530. He was able to get me in the right mindset and now I feel as though I'm on track to reaching my goals. It's funny how sometimes all it takes to gain confidence is spending some time working with right mentors.

I can't thank you enough for spending your entire day off to help me out and teach me about forging. The only way I know to show my appreciation is to one day be able to pass what I learned on to someone else who's just getting started, I truly look forward to that day. We had a great day and I learned so much, I was even able to take notes any time I could sneak and put the hammer down :D . Let's see (I'm sure I'm forgetting some things) - But I learned about drawing, punching, swaging, metal treating, tool making, proper hammer techniques, forge welding (including drop tong), working as a striker, hammer prep & tool modifications, shop layout & considerations, metal identification, proper fire management, finishing, various leaf making techniques, and what working with a great mentor is like.......not bad for one (long) days' work!

I appreciate the input, all great points. I am a member of Fiddlers Grove Blacksmith Association and the Appalachian Blacksmith Association. I attend class every Tuesday night. Joinery is most likely one of the big missing pieces since I have not learned it yet. I think once I learn that skill I'll hopefully be able to see the big picture better. I've been able to complete all my assignments in class with little problems, but I find myself struggling once I'm at home working on my own forge. I'm inspired by the small intricate work, which I'm finding are the toughest for me. Since I haven't learned joinery, I find myself baffled at how people can put all those little branches, acorns, leaves, etc on those tiny vines.....my first instinct is to plug the mig welder in, but I'm trying to avoid getting into that habit it possible. I'm just going to be patient and keep plugging away at it. A member of this forum from Missouri is planning on dropping by this Sunday, that will probably help me a lot having someone that's experienced around while I'm in my own smithy. After reading some of your suggestions, I'm beginning to think that using the business card holder that I attempted to forge last weekend as a reference point may be the ticket. I'm lacking the "flow" that's needed and everything I attempt seems to turn out so harsh. I'm going to keep trying to improve the card holder until I hopefully see improvements. Another thing I have to figure out is how to get symmetry. The first sides always easy because I'm making it up as I go, it's the opposite side that's hard to make match. I probably need to start sketching up what I want to build before I fire up the forge.

Not sure if that's the right title, or really even if I'm asking these questions in a way that makes sense.....but I'll give it a shot. First off, I realize that I've only been forging for a month or so and I will (hopefully be) picking up skills and learning different techniques for the rest of my life. But after looking at the stove thread in here, and many other projects that people on this forum build and share with us, it just reinforces a thought that's been bugging me a lot lately - how does one gain the vision to be able to look at a piece of old metal laying around on the road, beach, field, in a barn, etc. and turn it into a work of art? Is it something that's picked up over time, once you learn the principles of forging and get some time under your belt? At this point in my journey, I'm stuck in the thought pattern that I have to go buy a piece of stock to make something. I have tons of metal laying around my shop, leaf spring packs, coil springs, misc. steel drops, spikes, etc.......but all I see are big hunks of metal, where most of you would probably be thinking "I could make this and that out of all that metal". Not sure I'm wording it right. I understand that the finished product is a result of the person's design abilities, forging abilities, and planning experience, but I just can't look at a piece of metal and know what to use it for unless it's straight, clean, and fairly close to the size of stock I want to end up with once the piece is made. I don't want to only be able to make drive hooks the rest of my life, but how does one go from that to making all these incredible pieces of work? I'm hoping it involves more of experience/skill with forging than it does being born an artist, because I've never been overly artistic when attempting to draw, paint, etc. I'm finding myself almost discouraged at times.............kind of like I was unfortunately not born with the gift of an artistic mind and that I've waited too long to get into blacksmithing to be able to achieve the capabilty of making great pieces of work like I see on this forum. Thanks.

Man that is one substantial table, I like it a lot! Nice work. Sorry to hear about your pup.

Wish you were going to be a little closer to Nashville......I'd let (beg?) you to come teach me how to make leaves :D !

I guess a rawhide mallet would work as well?

Definitely number 1 in my opinion, at least that's my intent on my learning journey. At times I want work to be perfect and at times I hope to have a more rough finish, depending on the intended goal/application. I would much rather know how to, and have the ability to make a piece as clean as possible by hand, then if I choose to make something not so perfect, that should be easy to accomplish. I could be totally off base, but that's this posernewbiegreenhorn's take on it :D .

Being a beginner I have caught myself wanting to put my thumb on top of the handle, but I always change that when I catch it because it makes my already beat up joints hurt more. I do it for a sense of accuracy, but that's most likely a false sense, since I haven't aquired proper hammer technique yet.....same reason I continuously find myself reaching for too light of a hammer for the work I'm trying to do. As far as forging marks, the way I see it, back in the day when forging was the norm and machining wasn't around, I'd guess that what set blacksmiths apart was how clean their work was and they most likely wanted their work to look as machined as possible. In these days it's the opposite in my eyes, if you make something look so perfect, the average person doesn't even identify it as being hand forged. I could (and most likely am) way off point, but through my eyes I think there's times where I want my work to turn out very clean and precise and other times I want it to look a little rougher. Just my personal preference. If I want a "perfect" door pull for my barn I'll go buy a stamped out piece of junk from Lowes, but for me personally, I would much rather have one that "looks" hand forged in my eyes. So I guess what I'm saying is that I at times prefer work that may look rough and sloppy to others. I try to find a balance, which is tough at times. Being a perfectionist, an engineer, and an OCD posterchild I find myself in a constant self struggle with trying to get things too perfect at times and the result is usually disatisfaction with my work. Even if somebody compliments it and truely means it, if I'm not happy with the result it's junk in my eyes. Then on the flip side, I got into blacksmithing because I love the rustic look and feel of hand-forged work and hate the look of perfect stamped out parts and pieces. The two most frequent comments I've heard in my weekly classes from my instructors are "quit spending so much time trying to make it so absolutely perfect" and "hit the metal like you mean it".........

That's going to be my next attempt, too many people have mentioned it for me not to try it now. Thanks.