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I Forge Iron

wathomas

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Everything posted by wathomas

  1. I have only built a tire hammer style not a Rusty style so I can't say which is easier to knock together with certainty. I can say the tire hammer is quite simple and a quick build. I went thru the same indecision , in the end what mattered most was putting down the reading material and digging into the scrap pile. My very best suggestion is take an inventory of what you have available or can scrounge with your next trip to the scrap metal dealer and bang it out either style decided by whats at hand. Meanwhile if you crave a PH keep an open eye for what will be your anvil post...if you see a candidate snatch it up....I passed many suitable pieces right up 'til I need it but at the moment I was ready for mine I made the trek around scrap dealers in the area and couldn't find that piece. Ended up welding stacks of cut offs I had stashed and while it works it detracts a bit from the appearence. There seems to be a fair amount of fancination to small power hammers of any sort. If you built one and decided it didn't do all you wanted or couldn't take dies or what not you needed for your particular use I expect you could recover your costs w/o too much difficulty (particularly if you buy materials at scrap and not from a metals supplier). I recall four posts over the last year on the local Craigs List. 2 were authentic Little Giant hammers and the lower priced advertised for $2000 and the listings stayed up quite a while...but the homebuilts were $500 or less and the ads dissappeared the same day. Sounds like you are on that path having aquired your motor. Stay on the course of working with available bits and I don't see where you stand to lose. BTW switching motors is very simple on tire hammer...mount it up if the feller you have isn't up to the task you will know with certainty and can remedy w/o losing a lot of time or material.
  2. Looks nice and I like it too. Especially like that you took what you could scrounge and USED it. I say great job :D
  3. I don't have experience enough to make any useful recomendations. FWIW I tried no weight and two different weights...for my tire hammer, the heavier made a big difference. I think it could be improved even more if I fooled with a bit more weight. As it backs up to a heavy lathe (approx 5000#) right now I have just looped a line around it ...that prevents it from slowly "walking". Its not bolted down..right now I am thinking next time I come across some scrap heavy rubber I will put it under the base see what that does. Thats not why I posted. I want to say I am impressed with how everyone shared their experience in this discussion. Its a good group. Kudos for Ted..class act to make a simple apology ,not take offense or stray off topic. And that was made easier I am sure because Grant was quite graceful in expressing his observation how a statement made for emphasis can prevent or have a tendancy to prevent everyone from expressing themselves. I will keep lurking always informative. thanks all.
  4. Keith --congratulations on seeing it thru---looks great. You say you are about to cut and bust out a section of the slab and reinforce. I certainly have seen this recomended in several posts. Have you spoken with anyone who went the other way? IOW only jumping in to "repair" the damage to the exisitng slab after the fact? Have you had sicussion 0with someone ths has "done it". Wondering whether "waiting til it shows it is needed " is going to tyically result in a larger area that will need repair? I vaguely recall one post that went into some detail about the localized underlying soil type being a big factor.
  5. Congratulations. Enjoyed the video and as I watched it looked to me like the drive mechanism particularly shows off a lot of local problem solving/thought went in to its construction. I like that individuality in builds. Have you struck hot metal with it? …I had trialed my PH with a piece of aluminum (something I had seen on the web as evidence of how hard a hammer was hitting)…I didn’t have experience to correlate or predict what that was telling me. (but it smashed it well and was sort of fun). But it was later using hot steel when I was delighted with how it hit. That’s why I ask that looks in the video like wood being used for a test (makes sense rather than witness/scar the anvil )…have you done that before or have you been able to try out on a heated work piece? [or maybe I am imagining that to be a piece of wood ] Looks great!!
  6. No paint yet...have been using it a bit...these will spoil you for drawing out stock and super easy way to form a "square edge step. Going to use it a bit before painting (trial the welds etc). Nice link to site I hadn't visited. Nice loooking tire hammers. Meanwhile I am out of space (don't see myself building a smaller one).
  7. I thought this topic had some clear explanation on various heat treat operations and might be worth checking out if you haven't seen it.
  8. Tim---thanks for taking time to post pictures. The one you finished from the ball pien has a nice shape. You have figured out the the issue with slitting/punching the eye so clearly you learned from that one too. With tempering , I have broken a fair share of mostly wood carving chisels (worked from disgarded coil springs)...it happens and doesn't take a thing away from the learning if you have watched the color you will have a better idea how to work that particular steel. Sometimes can be useful to harden by cooling locally....just submerging the end or edge you want hard into the quench...this will keep the sections you want less brittle (like the tang of your knife or even back edge) softer. Another useful aid can be the oven...using an oven for 45 minutes to hour I can usually sneek up on a color amd draw pretty evenly the full length a straw or bronze. Typically set the oven at 405F to 425F (...varies by spring). But if I want a chisel that I will be hitting regularly with a maul or hammer I will sometimes still draw by torch or using the forge so I can let the colors go blue near the handle and only have the end straw.
  9. Heated some 5/8" coil spring stock to red heat tonight in the propane forge. The tire hammer performed very well quickly tapering a section to a pointed tang about 3" long. 2 heats was all that was needed...with practice it might be possible in 1. By hand I would likely have 5 maybe 6 heats using this particular coil spring stock because for whatever reason it is "harder" to forge than same/similar sizes I have used from other JY springs. Either my technique using the power hammer ...or maybe the tongs , wasn't the best....instead of an evenly 4 square cornered tang I got an sort of elongated diamond cross section...but heh I recall similar problems when hand hammering if my tongs aren't tight and let the piece "roll". Very encouraged by this first real trial.
  10. Good tip and you are right I don't recall mention of a brake ...nor did it occur to me when I tacked on a "stop" to control the travel of the lever arm. But it sounds like a good idea. This evening took a piece of flat stock 1/4" x 3/4 and approx 10" long. Heated red, bent both ends 90 degrees...heated back up...bent a curve "bow". Drilled the folded over tabs for mount bolts. The "arc" and its mount bolts sits on a stack of washers (this is the adjustment feature I chose since I don't ex[ect frequent adjustment to be required). Had a sturdy piece of strap 2 inch wide flat stock that was already formed in a "u"..used that as the base to get welded onto the motor lever arm. Works just like you said..releasing the pedal stops the tire and with a bit of finesse can stop it in position to hold the die open. When stopped this way (with die open) there is a strong brake that gets tighter if the tire is spun one direction. If the tire is turned by hand the other direction still holds pretty good before letting it starts to slip letting the die close.
  11. New morning fresh start. Drilled 4 holes inline in a short piece of angle, sawed it into 4 shorter pieces, drilled holes near the end of some square tubing had the start of the foot pedal. Another piece of square tube as a cross brace in the front ties them together. The scrap cross brace was a bit "short" grabbed a " thin cut -off slice" of 3" round to bridge the gap...I thought it looked sort of nice as a foot pad sort of complimented the scrap base plate with its holes ... so dug thru a tub of cut offs to find another same diameter and about the same thickness for the opposite side. Used a 1/8" x 1" flat stock as connector rod from the pedal frame to the motor hinge lever. Heated it up gave it a half twist so it could be loosely bolted at both ends (drilled a couple of holes at the top so I had a couple of choices if adjustment was needed...actually had a "short link " with 4 holes that I prepared...then found the original hole gave the pedal about the right travel). Pictures don't really show the spring I am using pulling down on the motor hinge. Right now it is sort of temporary as I have a short line tied to the back splash plate with a lop that the spring is hooked into. the upper portion of the connector added a 8-1/2 pound counterweight (settled down the 'rocking' motion) nothing hi tech it was largest piece of steel I could fit in...and is the first piece I have tried...it is a big improvement. [i have read of various counterweights being used weighing from 6 pounds to over 11 pounds so i wasn't sure what to expect ...the 8-1/2 pounds changes the rocking completely ) runs a lot smoother now
  12. Also made a set of upper and lower dies. I had some pieces of die steel "FX-2" which I researched w Google a few years ago when I first got it. Welded on some "wings" with 1/2" holes counterbored for 1/2 x 13 allen cap screw. The botton is "flat"...the top I ground one half relieving the edges to a maybe 3/4" or so radius. No attempt to heat treat ...will see how it hold up..I used a piece in a hand hammer gullotine and it held up to that but time will tell. When the tupper is at the top of its stroke this picture shows the clearance betwen dies (about 2") Still need to make the foot pedal, add a lot more inches of weld on the anvil and I will need a counterweight to take out some of the tendency to "rock" but gave it several trials by pulling down with a hand on the motor hinge lever. Not sure it demonstrates anything much but it does a number on 1/8 thick aluminium drawing it out cold. Resisting working red hot steel until I get the foot pedal
  13. OOOPs looks like I made a bad choice...turns out the mystery base I had hanging around is some sort of cast iron not steel. Although the welds looked pretty they lasted all of about 2 minutes before "ping" cracking under the strain of the hammer test. Today I cured the problem with a trip to a local scrap yard where I found some 3/4" plate (the pattern of holes "came with" don't know what this was in its first life). The yard was accomadating enough to slightly bend an extra one of the plates (there were lots of the "short ones" ...I only found one of the larger} anyway they bent a smaller one for me with a skid loader (convinced me that its steel plate....I didn't want another "do over"). While I was at it I grabbed a "backsplash" ...figured that should provide some extra stiffening for the upright...is it needed probably not but the price was right. Yeh its a little rusty but at the areas being welded I used the angle grinder. The to deal with the anvil (which at that stage was "hanging in the air" I took four short pieces of 3-1/2" round and cut them all to a tight fit (facing them in a lathe did the trick and I had to make them slightly different to get them all "tight"). Tapped them under the anvil with a hammer and welded them in place...decided this looked better than "stepping down" to a smaller single round [and I didn't have another large round]. My alternate choice using what I had would have meant a 6-1/2" diameter piece (largest I had) which I thought would look odd as the next piece in the stack would overhand by a inch all around.
  14. Brian, Sorry to hear you might face grinding your welds to peel off the face on your hammer. If these welds are near the rim might be delicate as well as tedious excercise. I would probably do it that way (cut it off) but like you would at least explore putting stiffening braces on the outside. If they lay out OK on the "front side" perhaps they could look more visually appealing with some "shape"...thinking maybe concentric pattern of circles/curved rounds, a maze pattern or something. I don't think you are the first one to do this ..I thought I recalled an image with stiffening braces showing on the front face...looked briefly for it but didn't come up with it. Wouldn't be an inspiration if I found the picture (more a deterrent from what I recall they were kinda rough). If its any consolation I have ground/cut more than my share of welds over the years...usually the dread and avoidance is worse than the job itself. Bill
  15. And lastly if it helps someone else avoid the situation I got myself into I share an embarassingly bad decision. I had lowered the bare end of the upright to the floor in a pretty much controlled manner. But when I got my arms under the "upper end" with its tire, Dupont linkage, the tupper and guide, the guide brace and the motor mount I discovered I could't lift/"walk it up". In fact I got the top walked from the welding table to rest against a workbench (slightly higher) with a considerable struggle. A couple of attempts to grunt it up and I decided that wasn't going to happen. So I attached a cable hand lever come along near the top and dead ended to a fairly heavy Marvel Power Hacksaw and raised it smoothly upright only to discover how absolutely unbalanced/top heavy this arrangement is. When the tire moved as the linkage shifted unexpectantly it nearly got away from me. I was alone (and no one was expected to come back for at least 3 hours so I had to get this thing stablized). It took considerable effort and strength to keep this kit upright when only the tube is sitting on the concrete. the next several minutes looked like a silent film...every time I tried to reach for anything to help the situation it would start to tip and wobble and I could just barely settle it back...it had to be supported or or it was going to tumble face first. Finally I stood on one leg and could just hook a sledge handle with an extended foot. Got the wood handle which is about 3 foot long under the tupper. It was far from stable but I got it to balance that way and then held my breath and dashed for some rope. Quickly got a spider web tied between lathe, a couple of workbenches another saw. Looked like the scene from Gulliver's travels holding the giant down but was effective at stablizing an unweildy beast. I then weled the upright to the back edge of the base. But the control lines stayed on until I welded the anvil stack and got the support tube welded from the anvil to the upright. Not sure I would do this alone again. [raise the upright with the tire, tupper , etc in place}. If I did the come along worked very smoothly but I would have control lines run lossely and adjusted as safety lines working slowly as the come along started it up...once it tips into place and is fully vertical the load is off the come along and it can very easily fall. it is a real good time to have another set of helpers hands. Best plan do everuthing slow and with saftey lines, strip off the tupper weight maybe the dupont linkages and still have a helper when it "is raised". :blink:
  16. At the end of the day it looks like this: Note even though the metal drive wheel has not been made, and the top two anvil plates and bottom die are setting loose ... I couldn't resist plugging it in and letting the hammer drop a few times. the bungee cord in the picture is keeping the mtor from contacting the tire because I haven't made a foot pedal or linkage (but have pulled the lever to watch it drop. :)
  17. Since starting this topic I have gone by a couple scrap yards several times but no candidate anvils have been at the yards when I was. Seen 6" or 8 " rounds in the past...but rarely 3 foot in length ...and since the great recession or what ever when steel prices dropped so fast the yards weren't paying much if anything for steel...the stuff coming in seemed to really slow down in the Detroit area. So I gathered up short drops that I have accumulated over several years and for now my anvil will be a stack style, bottom round is 8" they gradually taper and the top two are 6-1/4" (those two aren't welded in this picture as I am considering bolting the final plate on...[meaning the plate just below will need to be threaded if I go this route]. Either way the top anvil plate in the stack still has to be threaded because I plan to have bolt on top and bottom dies. having the top plate in the anvil stack bolt on would allow me limited flexibility if I want to "open up" the space between anvil top and tupper.
  18. And the hinge with motor mount plate and lever arm that passes in front of the main upright.Used some upright square tube ...nothing special about that selection just what was ready at hand. I decided to try something a bit unusual for the base..again because it is ready at hand...has been hanging around the shop for several years...looked like it might someday by useful when I drug it home but I have never been close to using it for anything. It looks like it might have been a surface plate (sort of... not quite as deep as is typicial and it doesn't show that it was ever planed or scraped). It has a pattern of threaded holes that suggests it was more recently used as a machine fixture of some sort. I have assumed it be cast iron but now having welded on it acts more like steel. The top is flat the underside is ribbed and the anvil will be in an area the ribs all intersect so what the heck I am going to try it as a base. I am guessing it weighs nearly 150 pounds...
  19. I do not have much experience ...I did this ONE time...so keep that in mind. But just a note that when I built a propane forge I used a product sold by Larry @ zoellerforge his web site describes as : Plistix 900F® is a general service coating that not only protects and extends the life of the refractory, but greatly improves fuel efficiency as well, and minimizes the health concerns of airborne ceramic fibers.The temperature grade rating for this product is 3400°F. It can be applied directly over ceramic blanket and other refractory materials It was not recomended for application on Duraboard. It was a white powder and mixed w water (consistency thick milkshake). It was and is still listed at a price lower than I found ITC 100. Mention this because of the post regards a "white powder" and thought maybe that sounds more like Plistix. If I am wrong speak up I don't mean to add confusion
  20. Keith thanks for the heads up on a proven spring thats a good deal.
  21. Partially built motor mount is positioned and mocked up with C-clamps. Before it welded in place a pivot lever will be welded to the edge of the plate.
  22. some more pictures. stepping back ...the really heavy section angle that was used to mount the wheel bearing assembly was machined on a Kearney Trecker Model D. The D has a head that will travel in an arc or a circle that the operator sets. It lets you use a small cutter and cut a large radius or circle or in this appication bore a large hole (using an ordinary 1/2 end mill cutter). The center post is not functional or necessary but its not in the way so rather than bore out entirely I left the post. Ok back to where we left off.... cut and tack welded a section of the same tube for the upright as the brace for the tupper and its guide support tube (to replace the stack of wood 2 X 6 in earlier pictures). I took it right from the power hack saw and tacked it in place and it was not good....the tire and tupper which had turned so smoothly was jerky and "hard to start" and wanted to "twist" the tupper and its guide. Grabbed a grinder chopped the tacks and checked each saw cut and both ends were about 1/16" out of square. Took the short piece pf tube to the horizontal mill and squared both ends. While I was at it went ahead and cut some extra clearence slots for the linkage. Not sure with the 15-1/2 length p;us the link pink support plates on this particular tupper if the extra clearence affoded by the slots in the side of the guide are needed but seems to be in most of the google tire images...so added the slots now (it would take a lot of grinding to cut the welds if I found out after the fact some extra clearnece was required) After squaring both ends of the support the smooth action is back...easy to turn and no tendence to twist...good lesson some extra time getting the support brace square on its ends (or plan on some real careful shimming when welding). Started on the motor mount...just a piece of plate (drilled to match motor base), some short pieces of pipe ,a piece of round bar stock that is a loose slip inside the pipe and a short piece of angle ....weld together to make a hinge (noticed I took the picture before the plate was actually welded to the pipe pieces...this arrangement captures the "pin" BTW)
  23. Dave, George & Keith thanks for the encouragement. When I make any progress I will try and post a picture. Right now I plan to get it together see what works then if I am struggling I may contact Clay Spenser and order plans or buy his spring.
  24. next in line for construction will be to make the pins that go in the links (the ones shown are temporary). then determine the spacing from upright post to tupper guide adn weld a piece of tube same size as the upright to hold the guide. In this stage of contruction the tire is easily turned by hand and the motion of the tupper in the guides is smooth in spite of the 2X6 wood spacers that are temporarly holding it off the upright post. [whole unit is laying down horizontally]. The tupper to guide is just steel on steel but is a nice slip fit that i arrived at slowly sneaking up on itso the motion side to side or front to back would be minimized. Couldn't be at this stage (and wouldn't have ever thought of building this at all) except for the great archival posts praising tire hammers.
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