Problems Quenching

[Alexismyname]

Hello everyone. I am new to blade smithing and a few weeks ago I have built a forge and bought a grinder and all the basic stuff I need. The blade is made from an old rr spike and I have basically finished the blade and I'm ready to quench. However I have quenched the blade twice in some old chain saw oil...the blade didn't harden....three times in motor oil....the blade didn't harden. Then I tried twice in water....the blade still didn't harden. I  almost certain I brought the blade up to the proper temperature because it was glowing orange and it lost all magnetism. Despite all my attempts, the blade never hardened. I know that RR spikes have a very low carbon content, but from videos, forums, research, etc, they will harden. I don't understand why I can't get mine to harden. Any suggestions on how to proceed would be very helpful, thank you everyone

[ThomasPowers]

Railroad spikes WON'T harden properly for a blade and the number of times you attempt will have absolutely no effect!

Old spikes are low carbon and new spikes are right at the medium carbon/low carbon boundary  For a blade you want high carbon or at least the upper levels of medium with other alloying elements that will promote hardening.

You have very nicely proven that much of what you find on the internet is totally garbage.  Sturgeon's Law in its strict application.  Also how hard it is to do proper research when you are just entering a craft and can't vet the sources you find.  If you live near me let me know and I can show you the ropes. If you live in the USA go to your local public library and ask to ILL "The Complete Bladesmith".  If you are outside the USA you need to find someone local to you that knows what they are doing.

You can make a modern RR spike knife tougher by using Super Quench; but it still won't harden like a high carbon alloy (which will shatter in superquench).  I am an elitest and prefer to use good alloys for knifemaking many of which can be found *free* or *cheap*.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Alex, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you  might discover how many IFI members live within visiting distance.

Thousands of posts have been archived on Iforge and organized by category and thread. Blacksmithing is an involved craft even at the base levels. Bladesmithing is a specialization of blacksmithing and includes more skills sets. I highly recommend you start out learning to blacksmith first. You'll need to be proficient in the basic techniques at least if you want to forge blades. Once you've gained proficiency at the anvil learning to forge blades is MUCH simpler, all you need to do is learn how a different type of steel moves under the hammer and proper heat treatment.

No I'm not forgetting grinding. You can teach yourself to grind and practice at the same time as you're learning to forge. Just try not to combine the projects and keep it simple. Heck buy knife blanks and make stock removal knives, there's nothing wrong with stock removal knives regardless of what the Youtube, FB, etc. "exSPURTS" claim. A finished blade has to be ground, sanded and polished one way or another or it's just an unfinished sharp thing. IMNSHO opinion.

Trying to learn it all at the same time is sort of like trying to learn to write poetry and compose music while learning a foreign language at the same time. Not impossible but oh SO much harder to do.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Alexismyname]

Thank you for the advice. I'll look up that book. Do you have any recommendations for good starting steels?

[Frosty]

Where you at Alex? I can't read it in your header. I start folk out on 3/8" sq. or 1/2" rd. hot rolled mild It's almost exactly the same weight per linear inch so it doesn't really matter. It's heavy enough to hold heat for a while and thin enough folk can move it without killing themselves.

If you're lacking hand tool skills like some of the youngsters I've run across I keep 5/16" rd. hot rolled for nail making exercises.

Once you've developed basic proficiency with blacksmithing skills move up to making tools like punches, chisels and the like. I pick up punches chisels, hex wrenches, etc. at yard, garage, etc. sales for the stock.

When you've developed the skills sets to start forging blades with a reasonably good chance of success you WILL have read the bladesmithing and heat treating sections here I'm sure and you'll know what steel to choose for blades. I may ask you one of these days if Theo keeps after me.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Alexismyname]

OK. Thanks. I'm in Williamsburg Virginia. I've just started out and I've been messing around with RR spikes getting the feel of it. The first knife I made, the one I'm not able to quench, turned out pretty good (for a first time knife). I don't have any real blacksmithing tools and my anvil is a piece RR track. I'm finding blacksmithing very fun and interesting, and I'm interested in learning more about it

[ThomasPowers]

A36 or even better 1018 or 1020 to learn smithing with and when you are ready for knifemaking I suggest getting a low milage car or pickup coil spring and cutting down a diameter with a cutting torch, angle grinder with a cutting disk, or even hot cutting it so you end up with a dozen ( pieces all of the same steel (generally around 5160 but with any scrap steels you really don't know...) This allows you to practice what temps to forge at and what temps to heat treat at; and what quenchant gives the best results and destructive testing to see if you are getting the best from the steel---all with the same steel

Please put VA, USA in your profile; don'r need closer than that and lets other smiths in VA make the offer to let you come over and hit hot metal!

[Bo T]

While you are practicing making tools, nails, etc. Look for some simple eutectoid steel 1075, 1080, 1084. These steels have the simplest heat treatment and subsequently the greatest probability for a good blade. I think there are some farm implements made from improved steel or something like that with this criteria.