Tire hammer questions

[wathomas]

I have never seen a tire hammer except the internet.

Q: found a post on LG spring sizes. Do tire hammer springs usually follow same approXimate size?

REF LG[ 25 # 1.5" ID X 4.5" Long w 6.5 coils of 1/2" cross section ; 50# 1.75" ID X 5.5" to 6.375" Long w 6.75 to 7.25 coils 5/8 cross section)

I have a couple of candidates ...on a tire hammer with approx 40 pound hammer what is more likely to be a good choice?

1.850" ID X 6" Long w 8 coils of .340 cross section wire

or
2.750" ID X 6" Long w 6 coils of .500 cross section wire

I have some die springs but concerned these may be too stiff (but saw a post by "Dodge" that looks like his tire hammer [very nice BTW] is using a die spring)

Thank you for considering...if I had seen some tire hammers in the flesh I might have a better idea about the springs

[wathomas]

Probably not understandable as written. I started constructing a tire hammer. I am trying to choose a spring (prefereably from something in my bin of treasures).

The one on the far right is 1/2 round coil stock...it was in an "equipment shock absorber pad mount" [sort of thing you put under a large industrial A/C unit as vibration isolator. Next is the smaller ID and .340" round coil stock. Both are 6" long. Two on left are die springs ...one has square coil stock about .250" and is the stiffest of the lot.

[KTB]

You can buy a spring from Clay Spencer but it is spec'd to work with his design. Arm size, length, hammer weight, stroke, etc, all are determining factors. I purchased a set of his tire hammer plans and have my hammer just a bit less than 50% completed.
Keith

[twcoffey]

I agree with Keith. Clay(who is a mechanical engineer) along with the spring company engineers worked out the design. I think Clay has the springs for sale for around $30 to $40 + shipping.
Trial and error is going to take significant time and money to achieve the best results.
Ted

[wathomas]

I don't want to tick off the communitty but I wanted to use materials I had on hand as much as possible...so I didn't order the PLANS that I have seen referenced in several archived posts. My reasoning , I knew for the most part I would be making a lot of substitutions since I was not intending to go shopping for materials that would be specified in any detailed plans. (I think I read 40 pages of detail...that also wasn't appealing wanted to work with what I had and make best use of what was on hand. So I downloaded GOOGLE "tire hammer images". Started by building the "ends" for the links since I was using bronze bushings I had on hand. I had 5 that are 7/8" ID and 3 that were 3/4" ID ...well used 4 of the 7/8" and 2 of te 3/4"...that sort of decision making kind of gave design direction. May do some spring swapping down the road...but my "tupper" [read hammer] is solid hot rolled and 15-1/2" long and weighs 37 or 40 pounds without the dies or those pieces you see welded on (that is approx with a bath scale). Here are some views of construction;

tupper being machined on 1930's G&E 16" toolroom (that is a universal 16" G&E Industrial in background)...the 16" was rebuilt along the way by someone much more skilled than I am and it is very capable along the full length

still the tupper now machining each end and will be drilled for 2 threaded holes to mount die plate using K&T Horizontal model H

[wathomas]

The ends of links were turned from bar stock and bored for a .002" press of the bronze bushings. Used idea from this forum making up fixture when it was time to weld [aux plates with spaced holes and angled temporary bushings that align the ends of links).


couple more views as details were mocked up


The bearing hub is mounted on a really heavy angle (1-1/8" section) that was bored and then drilled on Kearney Trecker Rotary D


The wheel is "permanently" mounted...without cutting the center crank pin plate off the wheel there is no getting at the lugs, so they are torqued tight with impact wrench. The crank plate/center section is approx 1" thick and has a turned crank pin 1" diameter. the crank pin is pressed into a through drilled hole and welded to the 1" thick disc which is itself welded to the wheel...tried to be careful to get it "square". WHY? well that is the spare I had that fit the bearing hub...I wanted the "overhang to be minimal" so I mounted same way as it mounts on the vehicle and this solution used pieces I had and so appealed to me. Making another wheel/crank pin would be pretty quick..getting this one apart not so quick but its a design trade off I made and will live with. The counterweight is something I am still noodling on.

[wathomas]

next in line for construction will be to make the pins that go in the links (the ones shown are temporary). then determine the spacing from upright post to tupper guide adn weld a piece of tube same size as the upright to hold the guide.



In this stage of contruction the tire is easily turned by hand and the motion of the tupper in the guides is smooth in spite of the 2X6 wood spacers that are temporarly holding it off the upright post. [whole unit is laying down horizontally]. The tupper to guide is just steel on steel but is a nice slip fit that i arrived at slowly sneaking up on itso the motion side to side or front to back would be minimized.

Couldn't be at this stage (and wouldn't have ever thought of building this at all) except for the great archival posts praising tire hammers.

[CurlyGeorge]

The red spring that you are showing installed in the arms is real close to the size of the spring that I used on my TH. works great!! :D

[Dave Hammer]

I would suggest you have a conversation with Clay Spencer (even if it's just an email exchange) about your spring. Ask him what the spec are on the spring he uses in his workshops (stock diameter, spring diameter, length of spring, number of turns). I have always found him willing to share information and opinions...

If your spring isn't suitable, your hammer will not work well...

[KTB]

I sent you a private message with my email address. Drop me a note if you like. Great looking build. I know what you mean by using existing materials to keep the cost down. My build is probably 30% over my original budget. Keep those pictures and updates coming.
Keith

[wathomas]

Dave, George & Keith thanks for the encouragement. When I make any progress I will try and post a picture. Right now I plan to get it together see what works then if I am struggling I may contact Clay Spenser and order plans or buy his spring.

[KTB]

I purchased a spring from Clay and it was 20.00 plus 11.00 freight.

[wathomas]

some more pictures. stepping back ...the really heavy section angle that was used to mount the wheel bearing assembly was machined on a Kearney Trecker Model D. The D has a head that will travel in an arc or a circle that the operator sets. It lets you use a small cutter and cut a large radius or circle or in this appication bore a large hole (using an ordinary 1/2 end mill cutter). The center post is not functional or necessary but its not in the way so rather than bore out entirely I left the post.



Ok back to where we left off.... cut and tack welded a section of the same tube for the upright as the brace for the tupper and its guide support tube (to replace the stack of wood 2 X 6 in earlier pictures). I took it right from the power hack saw and tacked it in place and it was not good....the tire and tupper which had turned so smoothly was jerky and "hard to start" and wanted to "twist" the tupper and its guide. Grabbed a grinder chopped the tacks and checked each saw cut and both ends were about 1/16" out of square. Took the short piece pf tube to the horizontal mill and squared both ends. While I was at it went ahead and cut some extra clearence slots for the linkage. Not sure with the 15-1/2 length p;us the link pink support plates on this particular tupper if the extra clearence affoded by the slots in the side of the guide are needed but seems to be in most of the google tire images...so added the slots now (it would take a lot of grinding to cut the welds if I found out after the fact some extra clearnece was required)



After squaring both ends of the support the smooth action is back...easy to turn and no tendence to twist...good lesson some extra time getting the support brace square on its ends (or plan on some real careful shimming when welding).

Started on the motor mount...just a piece of plate (drilled to match motor base), some short pieces of pipe ,a piece of round bar stock that is a loose slip inside the pipe and a short piece of angle ....weld together to make a hinge (noticed I took the picture before the plate was actually welded to the pipe pieces...this arrangement captures the "pin" BTW)

[wathomas]

Partially built motor mount is positioned and mocked up with C-clamps. Before it welded in place a pivot lever will be welded to the edge of the plate.

[wathomas]

Keith thanks for the heads up on a proven spring thats a good deal.

[wathomas]

And the hinge with motor mount plate and lever arm that passes in front of the main upright.Used some upright square tube ...nothing special about that selection just what was ready at hand.



I decided to try something a bit unusual for the base..again because it is ready at hand...has been hanging around the shop for several years...looked like it might someday by useful when I drug it home but I have never been close to using it for anything. It looks like it might have been a surface plate (sort of... not quite as deep as is typicial and it doesn't show that it was ever planed or scraped). It has a pattern of threaded holes that suggests it was more recently used as a machine fixture of some sort. I have assumed it be cast iron but now having welded on it acts more like steel. The top is flat the underside is ribbed and the anvil will be in an area the ribs all intersect so what the heck I am going to try it as a base. I am guessing it weighs nearly 150 pounds...

[wathomas]

Since starting this topic I have gone by a couple scrap yards several times but no candidate anvils have been at the yards when I was. Seen 6" or 8 " rounds in the past...but rarely 3 foot in length ...and since the great recession or what ever when steel prices dropped so fast the yards weren't paying much if anything for steel...the stuff coming in seemed to really slow down in the Detroit area.

So I gathered up short drops that I have accumulated over several years and for now my anvil will be a stack style, bottom round is 8" they gradually taper and the top two are 6-1/4" (those two aren't welded in this picture as I am considering bolting the final plate on...[meaning the plate just below will need to be threaded if I go this route]. Either way the top anvil plate in the stack still has to be threaded because I plan to have bolt on top and bottom dies. having the top plate in the anvil stack bolt on would allow me limited flexibility if I want to "open up" the space between anvil top and tupper.

[wathomas]

At the end of the day it looks like this:



Note even though the metal drive wheel has not been made, and the top two anvil plates and bottom die are setting loose ... I couldn't resist plugging it in and letting the hammer drop a few times. the bungee cord in the picture is keeping the mtor from contacting the tire because I haven't made a foot pedal or linkage (but have pulled the lever to watch it drop. :)

[wathomas]

And lastly if it helps someone else avoid the situation I got myself into I share an embarassingly bad decision. I had lowered the bare end of the upright to the floor in a pretty much controlled manner. But when I got my arms under the "upper end" with its tire, Dupont linkage, the tupper and guide, the guide brace and the motor mount I discovered I could't lift/"walk it up". In fact I got the top walked from the welding table to rest against a workbench (slightly higher) with a considerable struggle. A couple of attempts to grunt it up and I decided that wasn't going to happen.

So I attached a cable hand lever come along near the top and dead ended to a fairly heavy Marvel Power Hacksaw and raised it smoothly upright only to discover how absolutely unbalanced/top heavy this arrangement is. When the tire moved as the linkage shifted unexpectantly it nearly got away from me. I was alone (and no one was expected to come back for at least 3 hours so I had to get this thing stablized). It took considerable effort and strength to keep this kit upright when only the tube is sitting on the concrete.

the next several minutes looked like a silent film...every time I tried to reach for anything to help the situation it would start to tip and wobble and I could just barely settle it back...it had to be supported or or it was going to tumble face first. Finally I stood on one leg and could just hook a sledge handle with an extended foot. Got the wood handle which is about 3 foot long under the tupper.

It was far from stable but I got it to balance that way and then held my breath and dashed for some rope. Quickly got a spider web tied between lathe, a couple of workbenches another saw. Looked like the scene from Gulliver's travels holding the giant down but was effective at stablizing an unweildy beast. I then weled the upright to the back edge of the base. But the control lines stayed on until I welded the anvil stack and got the support tube welded from the anvil to the upright.

Not sure I would do this alone again. [raise the upright with the tire, tupper , etc in place}. If I did the come along worked very smoothly but I would have control lines run lossely and adjusted as safety lines working slowly as the come along started it up...once it tips into place and is fully vertical the load is off the come along and it can very easily fall. it is a real good time to have another set of helpers hands. Best plan do everuthing slow and with saftey lines, strip off the tupper weight maybe the dupont linkages and still have a helper when it "is raised". :blink:

[KTB]

Great progress. I pulled a good one on my hammer over the weekend. In my haste to weld the crank plate to the wheel I forgot to weld the spec'd stiffener bars on the back side of the plate. Now I either put them on the front, or grind the welds off the wheel and re-do. My fault but I sure hate it.

[wathomas]

Brian, Sorry to hear you might face grinding your welds to peel off the face on your hammer. If these welds are near the rim might be delicate as well as tedious excercise. I would probably do it that way (cut it off) but like you would at least explore putting stiffening braces on the outside. If they lay out OK on the "front side" perhaps they could look more visually appealing with some "shape"...thinking maybe concentric pattern of circles/curved rounds, a maze pattern or something. I don't think you are the first one to do this ..I thought I recalled an image with stiffening braces showing on the front face...looked briefly for it but didn't come up with it. Wouldn't be an inspiration if I found the picture (more a deterrent from what I recall they were kinda rough). If its any consolation I have ground/cut more than my share of welds over the years...usually the dread and avoidance is worse than the job itself. Bill

[KTB]

I am probably going to grind off the welds and perform a re-do. I like your idea of an adjustable anvil height. A tip that was given to me...when hammering thin stock some folks add a 1/2 in. spacer plate under their die to raise the height. I was told it allows a lighter hammer touch and therefore better control.

[wathomas]

OOOPs looks like I made a bad choice...turns out the mystery base I had hanging around is some sort of cast iron not steel. Although the welds looked pretty they lasted all of about 2 minutes before "ping" cracking under the strain of the hammer test. Today I cured the problem with a trip to a local scrap yard where I found some 3/4" plate (the pattern of holes "came with" don't know what this was in its first life). The yard was accomadating enough to slightly bend an extra one of the plates (there were lots of the "short ones" ...I only found one of the larger} anyway they bent a smaller one for me with a skid loader (convinced me that its steel plate....I didn't want another "do over"). While I was at it I grabbed a "backsplash" ...figured that should provide some extra stiffening for the upright...is it needed probably not but the price was right. Yeh its a little rusty but at the areas being welded I used the angle grinder. The to deal with the anvil (which at that stage was "hanging in the air" I took four short pieces of 3-1/2" round and cut them all to a tight fit (facing them in a lathe did the trick and I had to make them slightly different to get them all "tight"). Tapped them under the anvil with a hammer and welded them in place...decided this looked better than "stepping down" to a smaller single round [and I didn't have another large round]. My alternate choice using what I had would have meant a 6-1/2" diameter piece (largest I had) which I thought would look odd as the next piece in the stack would overhand by a inch all around.

[wathomas]

Also made a set of upper and lower dies. I had some pieces of die steel "FX-2" which I researched w Google a few years ago when I first got it. Welded on some "wings" with 1/2" holes counterbored for 1/2 x 13 allen cap screw. The botton is "flat"...the top I ground one half relieving the edges to a maybe 3/4" or so radius. No attempt to heat treat ...will see how it hold up..I used a piece in a hand hammer gullotine and it held up to that but time will tell.



When the tupper is at the top of its stroke this picture shows the clearance betwen dies (about 2")



Still need to make the foot pedal, add a lot more inches of weld on the anvil and I will need a counterweight to take out some of the tendency to "rock" but gave it several trials by pulling down with a hand on the motor hinge lever. Not sure it demonstrates anything much but it does a number on 1/8 thick aluminium drawing it out cold. Resisting working red hot steel until I get the foot pedal

[CurlyGeorge]

Hey Bill. Looks like you are moving right along with it. I ended up with about 7 pounds of lead on the back side of the wheel rim for counter balance. Mine wobbled back and forth until I did that. Not any more. I didn't have access to the equipment to machine my parts. But yours sure looks nice. You will be glad that you made it. It sure saves a lot of hand hammering on heavier parts. Good luck. Make a video and post it when you get it done. :)