Strine Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Dear fellow smiths I need some help or more precisely some new heads to think about this conundrum. I want to tackle the problem bit by bit rather than swamp you with the whole headache in one hit. The challenge I set myself (stupidly as it has so far turned out) was to create a turk's head style knot from steel. There are a few around such as the claydon knot but this is not suitable. The simple reason is there are as many "strands" going into the knot as coming out. I hit upon the Sailor's Lanyard Knot as attached. It has a handy loop and only two strands heading into the knot. Perfect! So in the first instance I ask that you all have a go at tying the knot in rope. This will give a good idea of the final shape I'm after rather than what can be gleened from the attached photo. The best instructions I could find on the net are here http://www.ropeworks.biz/reader/boatswai.pdf. For those keen enough to try a length of steel, be my guest. Later, I'll post the progress in steel....the progress that has come to a screaming halt for lack of brain power. I'll then post what I thought would be a great way to accomplish the much sought after final product...the method that just confirmed my incompetency A warning...this has taken me to a depth of frustration not ever visited before and don't wish anyone to fall into the same trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J W Bennett Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Strine, If we are to accept this exercise in flustration and aggravation does it matter what size stock a person mutilates....1/4....5/16....3/8....1-1/2..... Besides now that you've tossed it out there I will have to give it a go. If you're ears burn later it'll be me a cussing you for placing such a challenge out on the table LOL JWB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henerythe8th Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Strine, I have no idea, and you apparently don't want to divulge, what your purpose for this knot is. If you want to make this know because you like the look of it great, many times there are several different knots available that are capable of the same purpose (if you are purpose driven and NOT driven by THAT knot). Did you know how to tie that knot before this quest? Do you know someone else that knew how to tie the knot in a rope without looking at the diagram? Here's where I am going... I used to be a Survival Instructor and we like knots. However, a diagram is not the best way to learn to tie a knot. If the resource is availabe have someone show you how to tie it. For instance, it appears that your lanyard knot is a more complex version of the butterfly knot. See http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/butterflyknot.htm I could show you a much easier way to tie the butterfly knot than this by wrapping the line around your hand and performing a "pinch, tuck, and dress" to finish it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Number 8, yes I knew the knot before I wanted to tie it.... in steel. The purpose of the exercise is to add a decorative object to my meagre repertoire of decorative objects. We could discuss the "purpose" of a scroll in the same context, ad infinitum. What springs immediately to mind is a knobby handle with a hanging loop on the end of fireside tools. It could be added to an upright in a gate as a decoration. It could be used as a fancy priest on your next fishing trip. The idea of my post was to get ideas so that I can shrug this monkey off my back. I'm in a rut and need some fresh avenues to pursue. Sooner rather than later I will post a series of photos showing progress so far. In the first place I thought it best for folks that may take up this challenge, to have a finished article tied in rope in front of them, as a model to work from. This way, those game enough to try might come up with a completely new tack rather than be swayed by what I've been doing. We don't want the rut to get to crowded. JWB I was using 5/16 round because it was the same size as the rope I had. LOL, now if all you have is a 6 inch hawser, go for it. That'll probably give a knot about 8 feet across!!! Wow!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 As other decorative knots both the larkshead and the sheepshank can be tied by just forming loops and manipulating them rather than by complicated threading of rod around and through loops. As stated easy to demonstraight in person hard to explain---I may make a couple this weekend to show at the SWABA meeting next month, now if I only had more 1/4" and 3/8" rod to play with... Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 Thanks Tommo but I'm only working on the Sailor's Lanyard Knot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J W Bennett Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Well Strine I have 1/4, 5/16 and lots of rain. Looks like a good weekend to experiment now that I have all the gotta do's done. New things/ Ideas are one of the reasons I show up here. I'll let you know the results or lack of from my experiments! JWB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henerythe8th Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Good Morning Strine, I also like the fact that there is a lot to learn from the folks that post here. It appears that I may have offended you, that was definitely KNOT my intent! The real point of my post was that sometimes there's more than one way to tie a knot, and that it might be easier to do with one of the alternate techniques. For instance, I rarely ever tie a bowline with the "rabbit went around the tree" method, I almost always pass the running end of the line through a slip loop and pull it over... Have a wonerful day, Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimme Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 if you cant acheive what you want with your best efforts and all your skill then use your intelligence/cheat. you gota be able to piece it together and tack it up at the back, i would! if i was limited to makin only what i was skillful enough for, i wouldnt have done half what i have. do a stylised lanyard knot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpile Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 SHRINE--RATHER than gash your teeth and fume.BOG.. Just use your post-vice and a number three or bigger heat-tip, and a good pair of vise-grips. Using these tools and a little imagination. 1/4" rod or 3/16 if you have it. Start out tying the simple knots (over-hand, square, bow-line) after tying the easy ones and figuring out how to manipulate the rod. You will be ready to try turks, fiador and some of the other more complicated knots. Keeping your rod in the right color range and still soft enough to pull and tap through, without pulling it apart. Remember to pull just so hard and then tap on the back of the rod to encourage it on through the opening. If you had some really hard-lay nylon, like a catch(Lasso) rope that a heeler uses, it would help to understand what you need for the steel. A heeling rope is used by the heeler in teamroping of steers, to rope the hind feet on the steer. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 To the man of many wives. Nah, not offended at all. I had an incling that the point was missed. I too tie a lot of knots in string and rope and leather and all manner of other long skinny stuff. I've spent a fair amount of time at a forge as well, and noticed there's a lot of long skinny stuff laying around the shed. I thought it time to marry the two pastimes. Tying a knot is not a big deal for me. I've even invented a four lead four bight turks head which is mathematically impossible so they said. In short and desperately not trying to be short we are talking iron or steel, oooh, or brass...that would be nice! Sandpile, Leg vice...check, vice grips/tongs...check, doh...no oxy gear! Notice in the picture I attached, how compact the knot is. As with any complex knot you begin by tying it fairly loosely then gradually tighten it into its final size. My first attempt at this method, albeit without oxy gear, was pretty dismal, not that I want to discourage this plan of attack. Grmme. I think thinking outside of the square as you suggest is the way to go. Since we're using an entirely different medium it may call for an entirely different approach. However there is no backside to face to London on the knot. Footnote: Thanks fellas for your interest. It's relieving the torment no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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