primtechsmith Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Last nite I spoke with Rich Hale, and a few others on the idea of casting knife handles directly to the blade. I want to try something different than the standard. Anyone ever tried this, or have any thoughts on the matter? I am thinking of using aluminum.....What do you ya'll think? Peyton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqeezplay Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 uumm well. do you want to cast the pommel and guard? or the whole thing? i have a sword that has a cast handle ( the whole handle, pommel, guard) so i know it can be done. you might have to do it in 3 pieces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primtechsmith Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 I want it all to be one piece. Pour the cast around the tang of the blade. I am thinking one peice is easier and more durable than 2 or 3 pieces. Plus sometimes simple design is the most functional. Still in the idea stages... Peyton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Gold Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I foresee problems in burnout and heat treat if you use lost wax -- interestingly, with a custom cope and drag, I think this would work surprisingly well sand-cast. Still be worried about losing the heat treat on a fair bit of the blade. I would want to get as much of the blade outside of the molding box as possible and wrap it in wet newspaper/wet towels to keep it chilled. You would still end up with a big difference in heat treat in the transition between the hilt and the blade, which could cause the sword to bend there. Worth a shot on a piece of spring or something as an experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysmith Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I've thought of "casting" a rag micarta (compressed layers of cloth and resin) handle, but I haven't yet completely worked out the design issues. It should work well with no heat to take the temper out of the blade. As I get some time, I'm going to be trying it, so I'll let you know how it goes. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Hey Prime, here's an idea, cast on the handle BEFORE you heat treat. then heat treat just the cutting edge with a cutting torch on a low, non-cutting flame. But be carefull not to melt the aluminum. Try makeing a bigger ricasso to solve this problem. Personally, I wouldn't sand-cast, I would use basic steel molds and smith 'em out. The molds and casting will give you practice in both Foundry AND sithing at the same time. Hillbillysmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Oh! I forgot, drill some holes in the tang first so you get MAXIMUM hold on the casting. You don't want the handle to come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 If you're going to cast the handles onto the knife blade then T-Gold raises a very good point about lost wax not being the ideal way to try this, burn out temps are very high and unless you can do it in an inert atmosphere (doubtful) you'll get scaling on your steel, this would present a problem as far as the metal bonding to the blade goes. Even if you drill the tang to help with keying you may still end up with a rattling handle after some use. Then you've got the problem of a hot piece of steel in a very delicate mold, where would your anchoring points be for the blade in the mould to keep it aligned, and to stop it rattling loose, especially if you were using centrifugal casting? That in itself makes me nervous as an idea. Vacuum or vacuum assisted would be the only safe way and to be honest I just think it would be way too problematic to waste time trying. I certainly think that sand casting is THE best way to attempt this, cope and drag seem to lend themselves to this idea much better, you can carve wooden patterns and experiment a little, as long as there are no undercuts in the pattern I think you've a lot of scope to play around with. I have done a fair bit of casting, including attempts to cast one metal onto another (Silver onto gold). The main problem is making sure the surface of the metal being cast onto has a suitable texture for the new material to key to properly (usually undercuts and such are used in jewellery) and ensuring it's as clean as you can get it. The suggestion of drilling holes into the tang seems to be a good one to my mind if your going to try sand casting, because your not making scale on the blade you can cast onto a clean surface. Heating the blade as much as you can without causing scaling 'may' help because the Aluminium will chill as it hits the blade and this might cause shrinkage porostiy and problems with getting a decent and complete cast. Also make sure you have nice thick risers so any shrinkage you get (and you will get some) can pull additional liquid from them and not from around your cast handles. Of course the problems of heat treating the blade and such are beyond my experience, I've done a lot more casting than I have blade making. I think Aluminium would work well for the handles but I'm not too sure about it's strength with regards to use in the cross guard. Brass or bronze might be a safer bet for that. This is an idea I wondered about myself a long time ago but never got round to trying. I'd love to know how it works out. As an aside... Most genuine sword furniture was made in three our four pieces. The cross guard was made first and secured (firstly by being a tight hammered fit to the shoulders of the blade and then by the edges of the tang opening on the top of the guard being peened to wedge the sides against the tang) then the pommel was made and secured (the best way was to hot peen the tang over the pommel at the base after the pommel has been hammered onto the tang tightly) and lastly the grip was placed onto the tang and fixed in place ( wooden slabs, glued, then wrapped with thin muslin type material soaked in glue, then cord binding with more glue, then the leather, formed wet and stitched in place). This is according to a conversation I had while visiting Peter Johnsson (pretty much the best Sword Smith in Sweden, and highly respected throughout europe) and watching him work. Have a look here http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/johnsson/swords-museum.htm ) I've handled the Svante Nilsson Sture sword Peter made and I can tell you he is genuinely passionate about making the 'real deal' and that sword was. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Hello: Ok this might date me but the venerale Rudy Ruanna use to make his knives that way...he'd cast on the bolster and butt/pommel and they'd were dovetailed (undercut) to hold the grip scaled down...as well as the pins. Loooong time ago (like 1980ish, he passed I think in 1984??) I spoke with Mr. Ruanna about how he did this and he said he would just cast them into place on the tangs, with the whole knife in the flask. He said the sand in to cope and drag woul help preventy excess heat travel. I would think that spruing would need to be very creative. I have done pewter bolsters that were poured around the tang/ricasso way there is a 1200 degree difference between pouring pewter and Al. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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