David Einhorn Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 The question came up yesterday after a guild meeting as to what insurance policies really cover. Does anyone have policies that they have acquired through ABANA that they would care to let me read the wording of? I would like to see what the various policies cover in the wording of those policies, for guild insurance, individual demonstrator insurance and individual smith insurance. Some years ago I took over the paperwork for a non-profit group that did athletic activities and found that the policy they had been paying on for over five years was designed for a trade school and did not cover *any* athletic activities! I am not a lawyer and don't pretend to be one. But actually reading policies can be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Is it even possible to get insurance as a smith? Someone started a thread last month about forging and house insurance - apparently very bad juju. Many smith friends of mine are of the opinion -Don't ask / Don't tell - suck up the risk. As it is I'm still in the dark about insurance and smithing so any wisdom others have will be greatly appreciated by me. Thanks for asking the question Unicorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtforge Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Is it even possible to get insurance as a smith? Someone started a thread last month about forging and house insurance - apparently very bad juju. Many smith friends of mine are of the opinion -Don't ask / Don't tell - suck up the risk. As it is I'm still in the dark about insurance and smithing so any wisdom others have will be greatly appreciated by me. see the thread athttp://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/insurance-demos-events-6676/ Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 I read that other thread and it really did not provide any useful information. My question is about the policies that the various guilds and individuals have acquired through ABANA. I would like to read a couple sample policies to see what the wording is in them, and what the policies actually cover, not what people may think the policies cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Czar Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 As it is I'm still in the dark about insurance and smithing so any wisdom others have will be greatly appreciated by me. for DIY for health insurance LIE for homeowners insurance screw it and self insure by investing in a fireproof (or sacrificial) space but for business insurance, make sure you get good fire coverage guy I used to work for lost xxxx near all his equipment in a shop fire but with good coverage, put it all back together course we also spent a lot of time using partially melted equipment (folk lift, cold saw, ect) :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 i have buisness coverage but to send the polocy would be a pain it is like a book! i am willing to bet you can get this info from hartford. they are undewrighting the polocy. I had to get it for my shop in the museum ... i went for many years without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Dog Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I called on behalf of our blacksmithing club to inquire about our liability coverage for open forge events, and the insurance company was completely flabbergasted to hear that we actually lit fires and used hammers at these events. I then tried contacting ABANA to see what they could tell us, but I got no definite leads on any type of insurance policy to cover club or host liability at a hammer-in or open forge event. In the end, we concluded that the host of such a meeting should have good homeowners with maybe an umbrella rider . . . and then just suck it in. A lawyer gave me the advice that anybody could be sued for anything, but it helps to have and enforce a safety policy, such as glasses, training, supervision for newbies. But he concluded that nothing is foolproof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primtechsmith Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) I would suggest you take a look in the upcoming Anvil's Ring. There is a new insurance plan available for ABANA members. You can read up on the details there. Peyton Edited October 21, 2008 by primtechsmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtforge Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I read that other thread and it really did not provide any useful information. My question is about the policies that the various guilds and individuals have acquired through ABANA. I would like to read a couple sample policies to see what the wording is in them, and what the policies actually cover, not what people may think the policies cover. Your right I can't help you with insurance from/through ABANA because the Hartford company (advertised in ABANA) won't cover anybody in Indiana. The Indiana Blacksmithing Association has used Safeco Insurance. There are 20 pages to the policy. What words are you looking for? Also why are you limiting yourself with ABANA coverage? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilwarblacksmith Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 The original post for insurance at demos and events was mine. The underwriters for Hartford that ABANA promotes would not insure me because I allowed people in my work area. These people happened to be guild members as well as quality blacksmith. they just were not my employees. Unfortunately that didn't matter. They saw them in my webpage. Dave (unicornForge) and I were talking about this at my shop in Union MIlls. If other smiths are insured with Hartford and are demonstrating at someone's hammer-in. Anyone helping them with the forge and are not their employee could void the insurance. This is why he wondering how some of the insurances are worded. I'm still in need of insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 I suspect that blacksmithing clubs may tend to believe that they are covered by their insurance for things that are in actuality not covered by their insurance policies. In my humble experience in dealing with insurance companies for an athletic oriented club, while insurance companies were very willing to sell insurance to them, those policies in reality covered none of the activities of that group. Only a few insurance companies that specialized in writing policies for contact sports actually had policies for their activities, and then only when the insurance company was provided with a full set of rules for instructors of the activity, and a full set of rules and equipment required for sparring. My humble suspicion is that if a blacksmithing guild/club was not required to provide their insurance company with a complete list of activities and safety rules and equipment for each of those activities, then I would suspect that those activities are not covered. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and not an insurance expert and do not represent myself as one..... only as a person that has been exposed to situations so as to develop a bit of experience, so that perhaps others may learn from my mistakes.I called on behalf of our blacksmithing club to inquire about our liability coverage for open forge events, and the insurance company was completely flabbergasted to hear that we actually lit fires and used hammers at these events. ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 ya my coverage dosnt include students .. i believe the nwba uses the membership as a way to cover everyone at event (cant forge there unless you are a member) .that would always be a problem i would think ... insurance is to cover shop incase of fire or someone (customer) gets hurt .. but it dosnt protect me from my own stupitidy... and it would be real expencive if it did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtforge Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 My policy say: We will pay medical expenses as described below for "bodily injury" caused by an accident: 1. On the premises you own or rent 2. On ways next to premises you own or rent or 3. Because of your operations They also mention "volunteer workers" while performing duties related to the conduct of my business are covered My business is listed as blacksmith and described as forging work. My policy is a commercial policy and they came out and inspected me before they would cover me. No problems. When I was a maintenace manager we invited OSHA to come in to inspect. We passed and became place they brought others in to show them how to do it. I got my policy in part to protect me if someone trips over one of my tent ropes and sues me. Yes it says I'm covered at any "fair, trade show or exhibition" The IBA policy is also a commercial policy listed for "Clubs - Civic, Service or Social" Rated by the number of members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I do not have to worry about this yet, but I will in about four years. right now it's my parents problem. However, I will be book marking this thread for useful information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.