Swamp_Rat Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 First time poster here. I’ve been forging for about 2 years now and I feel the thing that’s holding me back a lot is not being able to get to forge welding temps. my current forge is a 20lb propane tank made slightly oblong with 2” of ceramic fiber covered with kast o lite 30 and brushed with itc-100 and has a Mr volcano burner in it. I do have fire brick doors on the front and back and 3 bricks to build up the floor and take up space. I used to run at about 5 psi but increased to 8 and noticed a big change in heat. I’ve went to 12-14 to try and forge weld but no luck! Any help or advice would be so greatly appreciated, I work in the metal fab industry so making a new forge isn’t hard to do if needed, I just require the knowledge Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 One of your problems shown in these photos is that your burner is severely choked down; open it up. The photo also shows blue flame coming out of front and rear openings; this is carbon monoxide being burned off, which should have been burned away in the burners flame; it was not, because the burner is being starved of air. At least open the choke enough to completely burn its fuel. Secondly, using extra bricks to eliminate space within the forge, creates all manner of problems. Such a 'cure' is worse than the illness. However, one of the photos also shows that, at least the end of the part is white hot. Are you sure that your welding problem is due to low forge heat? Finally, open the gas valve comletely; it is a ball valve, not a needle valve. A partially open ball valve creates cavitation; this will enterfere with the gas jet, which is your burner's engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Once your burner can work properly, you will come up against another problem, for I see the cross angle, holding your brick doors is place, is already starting to overheat. You need to move those bricks about one-inch away from the edge of the forge opening, so that the exhaust gases can rise up between the brick doors and the edge of the exhaust opening. It is fine to leave the back doors where they are, because you want to encourage the exhuast to pour out the front opening; once it can without hindrance, it should stop pouring out past the back bricks. You would be wise to exchange the wood pieces near the back of your forge, for cement board...before they catch fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp_Rat Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) Thank you for your response and help! I initially had the choke on my burner opened all the way but I was getting bad putting and scaling so I tried it closed up to see if that helped. I was running at 4-5 psi so maybe I just didn’t have enough fuel for the amount of air? I have opens the ball valve fully now and will bring my forge into work and reposition the front doors. Is there something I can do better instead of stacking bricks to take up space? Thank you for the tip on the back wall, I already had cement board to put up it just hadn’t made it there yet, and that photo makes it look a lot closer than it actually is (still not ideal, I know) Thanks for all the help and suggestions *what psi should I expect to run when forge welding? Maybe I’m being to frugal with my propane. Edited February 12 by Mod30 Remove excessive quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, Swamp_Rat said: I initially had the choke on my burner opened all the way but I was getting bad putting and scaling so I tried it closed up to see if that helped. I was running at 4-5 psi so maybe I just didn’t have enough fuel for the amount of air? Most smiths prefer a reducing flame, to keep scaling minor; this is fine. However, this is one more example of "if some is good, isn't more better?" To which the answer is NO! A slightly reducing flame provides reasonable assurance that little super heated oxygen will impinge on the heating parts. Increasing the amount of fuel gas past this point adds nothing useful to this situation; it only lowers internal temperatures, and produces carbon monoxide gas into the exhaust. So, play with the flame, until you become familiar enough to see the point where the secondary flame envelope becomes minor, but is still present; that is the best balance of positive to negative factors. Four to five PSI fuel pressure is way to low for welding with this burner series. You need to understand that these tube burners are designed to produce high-speed flames; this is accomplished with smaller gas orifice diameters and higher gas pressures passing through them. Expect to run around fifteen PSI for welding. Lowering gas pressures is actually a losing proposition, since a successful forge operates as a radiant oven. A yellow-white forge enterior will heat the work far faster than an orange hot surface. So, increasing gas pressure saves more than it costs, so long as you aren't wasting gas with a flaming exhaust. Instead of adding bricks--even insulating bricks--to the forge, you are better off to add insulation over the floor, with Kast-O-lite 30 on top of it, so as to reshape the inside of the forge, closer to a "D" on its side shape. The reason is that you want the hot internal atmosphere of the forge to circulate without hindrance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp_Rat Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 Mikey98118 thank you for all of the help. I’ll get the bottom of the forge all fixed up. I should re word that when my forge is up to temp I was running 4-5 psi just to forge, not welding heat. I went to around 12 psi when I tried welding. I’ve since increased my psi to 7-8 when forging and I’ll try 15 or a bit higher tonight for welding Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 You are welcome. Answers is what we are here for. Each one of you who speak out about a problem, is only one of many more around the world, who are also wrestling with similar issues. So, when we write back to one of you, all those others have the chance for an answer too. That you get particular answers to particular questions is your reward for speaking out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 And once you figure your burner out you might like to check out the Burner's 101 section of Iforge. It contains many issues, solutions and proven home built burners and what makes them work the way they need to, to work well in a forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Frosty, Is it my imagination, or has the conversion been even slower this month than in January? Is everyone still trying to dig themselves out from under the snow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Yeah, the traffic load has been pretty low. I think it's the general state of life right now with a hard winter thrown in. Snow storms, floods, wind storms, etc. I know a few folks who've taken second jobs to make ends meet and are still struggling. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp_Rat Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 23 hours ago, Frosty said: And once you figure your burner out you might like to check out the Burner's 101 section of Iforge. It contains many issues, solutions and proven home built burners and what makes them work the way they need to, to work well in a forge. Frosty The Lucky. Thank you! I definitely will. I’m still having some troubles, so I think I’ve got a lot to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Yeah, it's just the learning curve. Nobody is born knowing this stuff or anything for that matter we all started where you are, just some of us a couple few decades ago. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 We both resemble that remark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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