Keeping your fire lit

[Dan Crabtree]

Well, Im going to share one of my tricks so I hope I get to hear some of yours. Im experimenting with how im shutting down the forge, I wait till im ready to close down the shop then I put 2 good sized scoops of fresh green coal on the fire. sprinkle about 1/3 a can of water on it give the blower a little crank and walk out the door. Came back the next day, about 1 of the scoops was burnt up, Give the blower a light crank and keep cranking a bit harder each time, ashes will blow out then you will see some red glowing coal, a few more cranks and you got a good fire going, takes about 2 mins to start my fire in the morning and its ready for work. Im still trying to figure out if this is economical or if im just wasting coal, but i might be willing to sacrafice a scoop of coal for 15 minutes of my life. Although I do enjoy starting a fire.

NOTICE: leaving a fire unattended is dangerous. I dont recommend it, Just assume I stay up all night and sit in the shop and wait for the next day.

Also I usually shut down at 9:30 PM and get to the shop after school at 4:00 PM each day. Yah im pretty addicted, i dont think theres been a week where I haven't been in the shop at least for 3 days. Im usually there everyday unless I'm out with some friends or whatever.

[Glenn]

Leaving a fire unattended is NOT a good idea. Ask any fireman.

There are too many things that can go very wrong. A storm with wind could restart the fire, an animal could knock it over, or knock something onto the fire. IF there is a leak in an acetylene bottle, or propane tank, a spark is all that is needed to create one heck of a boom followed by fire - and a whole lot of fire - everywhere.

The loss of everything you own, all your neighbors posessions, and maybe a whole city block of houses or businesses is not something I would want to explain to the fire dept, the authorities, and the neighbors. We will not mention the wife.

Cleaning the fire out of the forge is the first thing I do as I shut down. I rake the fire out of the forge and put it (the fire) into a 5 gallon metal bucket of water. When the rest of the tools are put away, the forge usually has cooled enough to put my hand into the forge. If it is not cool enough to touch, I find something to do for a while. I sleep well at night knowing that the fire now out, and has 3 inches of water on top if it.

To build a fire, two or three sheets of newspaper are set on fire and coke from the previous fire, or new coal is put on the paper. Add a little air and you have the fire started. If for some reason it is being stuborn, set fire to a couple sheets of paper and add sticks from the yard, pine cones, wood shavings, or whatever. When this catches, add coal. This second method also smokes much less as the fire consumes the coal smoke.

The 15 minutes it takes to put a fire out, and the 15 minutes to build a fire the next time is just part of the blacksmithing process. Use the time to plan what you are going to do, and how your going to do it.

[Ed Thomas]

I have less of a safety concern about the fire than practical concerns. After all, If you have a fireplace, you leave that on all night. My woodstove runs almost all winter in the middle of the living room. So if you really want to leave your forge smoldering all night, make sure the fire is so contained that it can't burn your shop down. No windows open and so on. I'm not recommending that you do; I'm just saying we sometimes obsess about the forge when we routinely take greater risks inside the house itself. Coal is pretty stable stuff.

However, I think it is a bad idea for several other reasons. The smoldering coal doesn't leave a clinker, it creates "fly ash". Yes, you get a bit of coke out of the smoldering process, but you get too much loose debris, in my opinion. This stuff blows around everywhere and raises the percentage of impurities in your fire while you're trying to do things like forge-weld two pieces of mild steel together.

I've mentioned before that awhile back, I timed how long it took for me to build a fire and have a forging heat. At seven minutes, I had the head of a RR spike yellow hot. Start to finish. Admittedly, I wasn't goofing off then as I usually do because I was timing myself, but the point is... as Glenn said... it becomes a routine and you just build it right into the day. The firepot should be cleaned at least once a day anyway. This is the time to do that.

[Glenn]

Ed, When we build our home it was designed to be able to be heated on just wood should the electric or gas systems fail.

During cold weather, the wood stove runs constantly, 24 hours a day. The batteries in the smoke detector are changed at the start of cold weather and tested on a monthly basis. We burn between 15 and 20 cords of wood a season. The hot ashes are removed and taken outside in a 5 gallon metal bucket and placed in the snow with a 1/4" plate steel cover on the top of the bucket. It many times takes 3 days for the ashes to get cold to the touch, even in below freezing weather.

A change of wood from say oak to popular (logs in the woodstack) will greatly affect the way the fire burns and how hot the fire gets. We try to keep the wood from one log together when split and stacked. This is one reason we have two sides to the wood stack, one for daily use and one for night time use.

All this is in a closed, airtight container, with someone being in the house most of the time. To leave a fire open and smoldering in a garage, smithy, or even outside, to save 15 minutes of my time or 7 minutes of your time is not something "I" would want to do. Your mileage may vary.

Let's hear from a firefighter on this one.

[JimG]

Wood burning heating appliances are designed to minimize the risk of uncontroled fire.

What are you gaining by leaving the forge burning when your not there?

Why do you want to be burning fuel when your not heating something?

Any open fire is a source of ignition.

Fire is a good servant but a poor master. Make sure it is out. I do a fire check in the shop about an hour after I shut down, plus do one before I retire for the night.

[Stephan P]

While true that wood ash can stay warm for a long time, there are two things to consider.

1. If you clean out your firebox in absence of hot coals, there will usually not be enough residual heat in the warm ash to cause a building code material (like wood or vinyl siding for example) to combust through heat exposure (keeping in mind that the pile of ash is not on the consumable, but is contained in the metal bucket which acts like a heat sink to disperse hot spots that might ignite something.

2. Lets say somebody accidently shoved a dry piece of wood into the middle of this warm ash bucket, although the wood might char and even turn to charcoal if hot enough, it will not readily combust as the ash will not allow sufficient oxygen exposure to the consumable.

Hypothetically, if you had hot ash (not warm but hot) and in a bucket or box with holes in it and some paper or dry wood mixed in with the ash and there was sufficient breeze blowing into the whole mix (not to much air mind you), something could light, but it would probably smoulder for quite a while first and more likely than not, just turn to char.

However, REMEMBER that you are your own warranty station. You must do what you feel is sufficient as you answer to yourself at the end of the day. Things don't always go as planned and having a second line of defence is never a bad idea. Myself, I empty the woodstove ash (once cool) into a metal bucket and let it set on the wood deck until someone is heading out into the back 40. If I were emptying the ash into a cardboard box I would be much more concerned.

Now, for the forge, that is a bit of a different sack of snakes. Keep in mind the flue draft can fan the flames as mentioned above. I would not be able to sleep knowing that the fire was left unattended overnight and I do not recommend it unless your roof is non consumable, your building is made entirely of non-consumables and there is nothing flammable within 20 feet of your forge. I often leave the fire unattended throughout the day. But, the blower is turned off (usually :roll: )and I am always not far from the smithy, usually in the shop which is 100 yards away. If a wind picks up I get back over to the smithy. Still, that has its risks. I have seen a piece of coal pop (gas pocket in it I guess?) and it shot some embers 14 feet where they bounced off of the wooden walls. I got after it with water, but I'm not sure that there would not have been a fire if I wasn't there to soak with water.

Here's the way I (and my guess is many others as well) see it . Thousands to rebuild, plus about 3-4 months of my labour. That's a big time investment. It takes me 2 minutes and 40 seconds to have a hot fire going. (yes, I have timed it). Here's how I do it:

I used to forge with charcoal long ago. Switched to coal for obvious reasons, but I still make a bit of charcoal now and then and use it to start my fires. The fire has been scooped out from the previous night where I sprinkle water to cool most of the coke (I leave enough heat in the coke so that it will dry out throughout the night).

Ok, so the fire is scooped out from the night before, throw in a couple pieces of coke to cover the clinker breaker. Then, a small handfull of charcoal and light. Add a bit of air, add your coke loose on top and air as needed. In about a minute and a half you will have a plenty good fire no ifn's and buts.

For what it is worth, each night after shutting down the forge I turn of all the lights and take a slow walk around the forge area checking walls and structure for glowing bits. Keep in mind that my smithy is a dry wood structure and I'd rather not rebuild.

Happy smithing,
Stephan

[Dan Crabtree]

our shop is made concrete floor and tin walls, I was told by another smith to never pour water into your fire pot to put out the fire because it can cause the cast iron pot to crack. Although Im not doing this method anymore, not as much because of the fire hazard reasons but because of the fire quality. I couldnt get a good forge weld at all yesterday. I think that this might be contributing to it as mentioned.

[Stephan P]

Cast iron firepots can break. that is why I made mine out of steel. No cracking no matter how much water I pour on it. Usually most people do have cast iron pots and for this reason don't pour water directly on them. Instead, scoop out the coals onto the forge table and sprinkle with water.

[Glenn]

I drag the coals out onto the forge table and then use a shovel to move them to the bucket of water, mentioned above. The clinker, goo, etc goes to the bucket.

Next day, it doesn't take long to sort out the clinker, and occational shale. Let the coke (now washed) dry a day ot two and it's ready to start a fire. During the summer, I save the coke back and use it for demos, real coal but no smoke.

I do not use water to sprinkle a fire, or put water into the fire pot. Just what I am used to doing here.

[Ed Thomas]

I seem to have hit a nerve. :shock: I STILL think there is a bit of irrational fear. I heartily support letting the fire go out. It is better for forging, more economical, and much safer, any of which is a sufficient reason. I do not use water in my forge ever. If the fire is wrong, I build it right. When it is time to quit for the day, I pull it apart and let the coals go out. It doesn't take long.

Having said that, I did build my new shop with an eye toward having a much less flammable workplace, and will breathe much more easily when I'm moved into it. The coal forge is not really much of a concern... it is sparks from welding, cutting or grinding that always make me nervous.

Please don't get indignant at me for advocating unsafe practices. I never leave my forge fire banked overnight. But I do think it is actually less dangerous than an awful lot of ordinary household hazards that we get awfully cavalier about from the greater familiarity.

[T-Gold]

I use propane, but I share Ed's concerns about grinding, welding sparks, etc -- also hot scale which goes everywhere. Not too bad, but if it gets into a mouse nest or something...

Anyway, I just wanted to say that things like space heaters, over-wattage light fixtures, etc. are probably equally worthy of concern, if not more so, again, as Ed said. :)

[Stephan P]

.............let's not forget those extra-long under-rated extension cords :wink:

[Barney]

I never leave my forge going while not there..While it is starting up in morning I do the prep work for the day. I I also am a wood burner, that is way different than a forge. Air tights are ment to be going all hours. When I am out of the shop so is the forge.

[anvillain]

Dan, I've read your post and all the replies and I just want to address one part of your procedure. All the considerations for overnight safety depend a lot on the construction of the building and surrounding materials. The part that bothers me about your procedure is the adding of water just before leaving the fire. I usually add water when I'm building the fire,but only after I have a good hot nucleus down in the tuyere. When you dampen the coal it causes gasification and depending on some variables this gas can ignite and cause one Heckuva concussion if you're lucky. If other flammables were nearby the possiblilities are endless! As you can tell I learned this first hand. In my case all it did was blow the ash dump door open and split the pipe from the blower. That was one of my first fires and I know now that I should have been pouring the air to it after SPRINKLING the water. I don't believe there is much danger to the cast iron firepot unless you would overdo on the water and that wouldn't be productive anyway. I sprinkle around the edges to help concentrate the fire in the center especially when I'm building up to a welding heat but it also helps to clear up the early smoky stages of a newly built fire. I wouldn't be without the water in the period just after getting a good flame on top of the coal and before the fire gets as hot as you need it. The other time I use the sprinkler can is after dumping ashes, cleaning out clinker and reconstituting the fire after 2 or 3 hours of forging. My experience with the coal I use may not necessarily be the exact recipe you need. I have found, too that the better coal the less water is needed. I strongly recommend you do NOT leave the fire any time soon after adding water.