Seeking Advice on Forge Size and Possible Purchase

[Nizzle]

Hi everyone, I’m brand new here (I spent time on Bladeforums for a while, but only just created an account here). Sorry if this was gone over already, I know that may annoy people if it was.

Ok so I have a single burner, rectangular propane forge (I’ll try to attach a picture). It’s simple and I don’t think the burner is super good tbh. Standard, $200ish forge.

I've been doing stock removal for maybe two years now, although it’s only a hobby so it’s not like I’ve made a ton of blades, but I used the forge for HT. Now I want to forge some blades, the time has come I guess. For some reason I’ve become fixated on reasonably accurate tantos (steel and techniques aside, I just mean the basic structure, fittings and geometry). I’ve made a couple and I had a lot of fun with water quenching, fittings and stuff. So That’s basically the size blade I’m looking to make, around 1’, and maybe one day I’ll mess around with a very small wakizashi with a ridge line.

Anyway, basically my questions are:

-is it possible to achieve forging temps in a single burner, 12” by 4” rectangle forge (that’s the actual size inside the liner) for blades as long as one foot and final max thickness of 3/16”?

 

(I did a cubic twist on a piece of 1/2” stock and the thing barely got bright orange, wouldn’t get yellow. Maybe I have to let it soak longer, but I’d say it was a solid 10-15 minutes.)

-for anything bigger than 1’ I’m guessing I’ll need a bigger forge? I can weld and make a forge shell easily tbh, I do industrial work and I’m good at fabrication, but I’ll be honest when it comes to something connected to a bomb aka propane tank, I don’t like the idea of making it myself. I love to make my own stuff, but the forge itself I’m a little hesitant about making.

Maybe I should just spend $450 and buy a Majestic with three burners? Do you guys think that would serve me well for my purposes, would it even be enough still?

Thanks

[ThomasPowers]

What are you using for the door(s)?  Has the refractory wool been rigidized and coated and then perhaps an IR reflector mixture on top? Have you thought of replacing the firebrick with an insulative refractory?

In general you don't want to heat more blade steel than you can work in a hammer session as heating areas you are not working promotes grain growth, decarburization and scale losses.  Swords can be forged in a 1' long forge as long as there is a pass through in the back.

[Mikey98118]

1 hour ago, Nizzle said:

(I did a cubic twist on a piece of 1/2” stock and the thing barely got bright orange, wouldn’t get yellow. Maybe I have to let it soak longer, but I’d say it was a solid 10-15 minutes.)

You should look into replacing that burner with a frosty "T" burner. Why not one of mine? There are more differences in burners than just how hot they get. The "T" is a little softer flame, which should go better in your forge design.

[Nizzle]

2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

What are you using for the door(s)? 

Thanks for the reply Thomas.

I have insulating soft bricks that I use to close up the ports/ends. I got them from a legit company recommended to me from an old forum post I believe. Maybe they aren’t the best choice since they’re fragile, but I figure they’ll work better than the hard bricks. Is that something you would do?
 

The wool comes rigidized, although I still use a mask when I run it. As for an IR reflecting coating I do not believe so, that wasn’t mentioned I don’t think in the product description. Would a coating like that would help insulate it better? I’ll look it up see what I can find as far as buying it.
 

As for replacing the hard firebrick sitting on the wool at the floor I haven’t thought of that, will that help it to get hotter as well?
I have considered coating it with satanite just to be safer with the wool, but I haven’t done it yet. When heat treating I didn’t have much issue but now with forging I’m rethinking everything. 

Ok so as far as longer blades, you would basically just heat one section at a time then right? So it might be possible to use it? That’s good, I’m so new to forging I should just experiment for myself and figure it out, but I figured I’d ask experts. I just didn’t want to use my W2 today since I am running low. I did however do a cube twist and it worked, although it only got bright orange (then again I had bright shop lights on).

 

I know my largest Tanto had to be passed back and forth to get it up to temp and hand/eye soak it (if you will) for a couple minutes (it’s Aldo W2), so I’m familiar with the idea of having a blade sticking out. I typically leave a small gap between the side and a soft brick and let the end or tang stick out, then on the front I cover it up a bit as well. Perhaps I’m not covering the ends well enough, although I know not to seal them up so don’t worry hah.

1 hour ago, Mikey98118 said:

You should look into replacing that burner 

I’ll be honest I never thought about simply buying a burner and replacing the one I have lol. I considered making a forge, making a burner and adding it as a second one, etc, but not replacing the existing one. I’ll look into that thanks. Do you think that would help with forging better in terms of the heat, or is it just better all around in terms of keeping the “blue flame” off the steel and reducing decaurb? I don’t know much about burners themselves tbh.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Mod30
Trim quote.

[Mikey98118]

No; I think your burner is simply way too close to the work. A "T" burner will get hotter than yours, and burn more completely before the flames impinge on the work. But, this change is palliative; not a cure. Sorry, but changes can only do so much. If you want a cure, you must build a complete new forge

[ThomasPowers]

Doors: check; Wool covered: down check;  IR reflector: downcheck---it helps get things hotter by reflecting the ir.   The fire brick is a heat sink it will make it take longer to heat up and longer to cool down when you turn the forge off.

I think you need to review burners 101 and gas forges 101 where this stuff has been covered many many many times...

[Nizzle]

2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Doors: check; Wool covered: down check;  IR reflector: downcheck---it helps get things hotter by reflecting the ir.   The fire brick is a heat sink it will make it take longer to heat up and longer to cool down when you turn the forge off.

I think you need to review burners 101 and gas forges 101 where this stuff has been covered many many many times...

Golly I’ll go review the material. Thanks buddy.

2 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

No; I think your burner is simply way too close to the work. A "T" burner will get hotter than yours, and burn more completely before the flames impinge on the work. But, this change is palliative; not a cure. Sorry, but changes can only do so much. If you want a cure, you must build a complete new forge

Yeah I figured that, probably will get a new forge, perhaps make it, we’ll see. But if I need a burner I know who to ask. Thanks man. Take care.

[Mikey98118]

Um. there is one way. You could omstall a very small ribbon burner, but most people would hardly consider it worth the bother; they're wrong. It would definitely be worth the bother, and could end up being a unique forge; the envy of any knife maker or hobbyist.