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Base weight question


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I rebuilt a Little Giant 50# hammer, and need to mount it on a foundation of some kind. The Little Giant specs call for a reinforced concrete block approximately 2ft by 3ft by 4ft, poured into the ground, which would weigh approximately 3600 lbs. I have a steel / lead sandwich plate that weighs approximately 2000 lbs. It would set on railroad ties to spread the load out on the ground.

This would allow the hammer to be moved from place to place without a big investment of pouring a foundation and remedial work to remove it when the hammer was removed.

Would the difference in weight affect the operation of the hammer?

Thanks for any thoughts or experiences.

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Welcome aboard Cap glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many members live within visiting distance. 

What kind of surface are you putting your LG on? Mine is on a concrete floor, without any of the foundation recommended in "The Little Giant Powerhammer Book."  I bolted mine to a 4" x 12" timber platform to bring it to a more comfortable working height and make it easy to pin to one place in my shop. See pics.

The ONLY way I could imagine pouring a special foundation block for it would be in poor soil conditions and then I'd prefer to excavate and fill with good compactable material. If you have drainage or ground water problems a heavy base, concrete or lead will still sink from the hammer generated vibration causing liquefaction in the sub soils. 

Frosty The Lucky.

This is the base I built my 50lb. LG. The timbers are 4" x 12". You can see in the pic where I drilled and bolted them edge to edge. The steel straps across the bottom are 1/4" x 6", everything is screwed and glued. I built the base before I unloaded from my trailer after bringing it home. 

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This pic is of the base from the hammer side, note the bolts in the hammer match up with the counter sunk bolts in the cross plates on the bottom of the base. I had to weld steel pipe with a thick washer to recess the bolt heads.

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This is her after I unloaded her and stood her up. Tipping her off the back of the trailer with the help of a come along and my engine hoist on the trailer made it pretty easy but I took it nice and slow. Didn't want to drop my new baby, specially  not on my toe! The 3 1/2" lift from the wood base put the dies just about belt height. If I were to do it again I'd raise it so the dies were at about wrist height but it works a treat where it is now.  The sheet of rubber between the base and hammer is only there to prevent oil saturating the wood, it's glued down with liquid nails like the rest. Yeah, the rubber was probably unnecessary but this is my first power hammer so I  made it a little special. :)

1881862850_Bobbieinplace01.thumb.jpg.548fc1b93e51def8decb800b01afb6ca.jpg     100008495_LGleftside.thumb.jpg.b01d8eb7a7e0430999a214e82e2ee415.jpg      LGw-guard.thumb.jpg.5ad50d732221c0f6f1ff8954ab0ed9fb.jpg

The middle pic is her after serious degreasing, sanding and fresh paint in my shop colors. You wouldn't believe it but the pic on the left was after almost $10 at the car wash high pressure degreaser. Took carb cleaner and gasoline to get all the old petrified grease and oil dirt pavement off her. DRATS, I really must get a pic of her right side, I keep her from going walk about in the shop by pinning her to a gozinta. My shop has 2" sq receiver tubing cast into the floor on a 4' grid. The ends are flush with the floor and welded into the rebar. Just barely visible on the right side of the last pic is the pin. I welded a piece of 2" square tubing to a piece of 3" x 3" x 5/16 angle iron screwed to the wooden base. She rocks a little but stays put. The pin unscrews in case I want to move her.

I've been reassured I got carried away but didn't hurt anything. I don't know of anybody on decent ground who cast the concrete foundation block or built the big timber crib. 

Frosty The Lucky.

       

 

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One of the problems with an unsecured hammer is that the tup or hammer itself can lift the entire hammer (slightly) on the upstroke. Mine, at 75# would walk towards you as you worked it. I solved this by bolting it down to a 6 inch commercial floor, with no apparent problems.

My son is using it now and poured an 18 x 30 by 48 block for it, he say it works very well. 

Try the weight you have, chance are it will work good enough.

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Thanks guys.

Frosty, you say your hammer rocks a little. Am I right in thinking right and left? Could it be the out of balance crank pin wheel causing it?

Or is it fore and aft, as Arftist says his moves? And I think you are right Arftist. "Run what ya brung," as the racers say. I have more than a few hours invested in this base, so I will see how it behaves.

 

Oh, I am in Denver CO. And the hammer may be for sale, depending on the outcome of a biopsy. Hopefully I can get some use out of it.

 

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Welcome to IFI, we won't remember your location once leaving this post, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show it. I hope the biopsy comes out clean and you get many years use from that hammer.

I mounted my Star hammer on a large diameter oak stump buried in the dirt floor about 3 feet deep surrounded with reinforced concrete 4 inches thick. It lasted about 10 years before the bugs/rot ate the stump, which I dug out and filled the hole with more reinforced concrete & J bolts to hold the base down. You can see the base in the second picture on the right of the anvil & pulley I made. There is only about 600 pounds of concrete in the new base and it has been solid for the last 15 years.

In case you haven't read about us loving pictures we do, just have to resize them to upload them.

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I guess I have to take that back, I do know someone who poured a thick concrete pad for their hammer. 

Yes my hammer rocks left and right as do the other LGs I've operated or watched. Indeed, there is a lot of lateral reciprocating weight: crank pin, crank box, pitman, link arms, spring and miscellaneous bolts, pins, etc. and it all deccelerates and accelerates twice per cycle. 

I have trouble imagining the vertical reciprocating weight being sufficient to rock the hammer fore and aft unless it's on a uneven surface. I'll admit my experience with mechanical hammers is limited. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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On 8/9/2020 at 11:28 PM, arftist said:

One of the problems with an unsecured hammer is that the tup or hammer itself can lift the entire hammer (slightly) on the upstroke.

I've experienced this often with my treadle hammer, and that's just me-powered.

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On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 1:22 PM, arftist said:

I did just think of a problem with the lead sandwich. Lead has zero elasticity. 

Eventually the lead will be forced out the sides.

Suggest you weld flat bar across the seams.

Thanks, Arftist,

The "sandwich" is a 2 inch thick steel plate, 20 X 42 inches, with a 1/2 inch by 3 inch wide  strap iron band welded around the periphery, the cavity

filled with lead, and another 2 inch thick steel plate welded on top, with the hammer, sitting on some conveyor belt, bolted to it. The lead is mostly for mass.

So the lead will be subjected to whatever flex the 2 inch steel plate has, and I don't think it is much.

I know what you were warning about though,, as the behavior of a well used lead hammer would demonstrate.

CZ

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