First forge project...

[NolanF]

Hi everyone I am new on this forum, I seek advices on my little coal forge.

The inside diameter is about 20cm (7.8inches) long and wide and 30cm (11,8inches) high. I used refractory mortar and bricks as "walls" and for the door. The air flow is coming from the bottom and is provided by a old leaf blower. 

I designed it to make the heat treatment for my knives blades, and maybe try learning blacksmithing small things.

My little tradition is to make a video of each project I made to share it with community and have advices in return.

Anyway I came on this forum to gather advices and to improve myself in blacksmithing. You can see the small video here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GojnZ6XMocA&feature=youtu.be

Can't wait to read your comments.

Thank you

Nolan 

[ThomasPowers]

Have you used forges before so you know the important design details?  (Or are you building a car never having driven one but seen them on TV?)

I built my first forge in 1981 and have been forging ever since; here are a few of my comments:

1: WAY too much air; a blow-dryer puts out too much air for most coal forges and charcoal uses a lot less!  If you try heat treating with that much air be prepared to burn up blades  and scale them heavily!

2: How deep is the bed of coals?  You will want a substantial bed of coals under the workpiece and a few more inches over the workpiece.

3: Why use refractory mortar and fire brick; cheap cat litter clay will work for the liner for the base. Remember for over 3000 years people have been forging blades using a hole in the ground.

4: You will need to be continuously shoveling in charcoal; especially with an electric blower and it doesn't look like it will be easy to do it with that design.  

5: How will you clean it out?

6: I suggest you look up a proven design like the JABOD or Tim Lively's  washtub forge and see how you could use your beer keg to build a variation of one of those. (I would make a hinged top to make it easy to access for fueling and cleaning.)

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome aboard Nolan. If you look up at the top banner, you will see a tab "Read This First". It will help you in getting the best out of the forum with tips like editing your profile to show your location, as so many answers depend upon knowing where in the world you are located. Other tips may help with staying off the moderators radar. I agree with ThomasPowers about the forge. What type of coal are you using it looks like charcoal to me?

[ThomasPowers]

Hey---feel free to argue with me and others here; just be sure your contentions are grounded in fact and not fallacy!

 

[Frosty]

Did he get back to you on the side Thomas? I don't see a second post. 

I'm not sure what to say. Do you really want our comments on a youtube how to video of someone making something they don't understand? 

I have a couple suggestions for improving your video production quality though:

1, Do NOT video the arc while you're welding it's nothing but annoying. It show's NOTHING of value it glares out everything in the picture. 2, Rather than show all the speeded up video just delete those parts it is again nothing but annoying. Your shop skills are NOT good enough to tempt other unskilled people to try what you're doing.  

There are a LOT of proven forge plans for you to choose from and THEY WORK.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[NolanF]

On 6/25/2020 at 3:21 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Have you used forges before so you know the important design details?  (Or are you building a car never having driven one but seen them on TV?)

I built my first forge in 1981 and have been forging ever since; here are a few of my comments:

1: WAY too much air; a blow-dryer puts out too much air for most coal forges and charcoal uses a lot less!  If you try heat treating with that much air be prepared to burn up blades  and scale them heavily!

2: How deep is the bed of coals?  You will want a substantial bed of coals under the workpiece and a few more inches over the workpiece.

3: Why use refractory mortar and fire brick; cheap cat litter clay will work for the liner for the base. Remember for over 3000 years people have been forging blades using a hole in the ground.

4: You will need to be continuously shoveling in charcoal; especially with an electric blower and it doesn't look like it will be easy to do it with that design.  

5: How will you clean it out?

6: I suggest you look up a proven design like the JABOD or Tim Lively's  washtub forge and see how you could use your beer keg to build a variation of one of those. (I would make a hinged top to make it easy to access for fueling and cleaning.)

First, Thanks for your advices.

1. What type of device could replace the blower ?

2. I used about an inche under and over the piece. I see I was wrong I'll try it as you said.

3. When I did researches on the forge, I was seeing a lot of "furnace" like designs so I designed mine on what I saw. But these top closed designs are mostly used for gas forge isn't it ? A solution would be to remove the door and cut the top half of the keg, then it could be more appropriate.

4. With an air flow like this I assume the charcoal I use will be consumed quickly.

5. At the end of the video I show that I changed a bit the design, then cleaning the inside of the forge will be easy, and for the cleaning of the air duct I made a removable pipe extension so I can access and clean the embers in the air duct.

6. Thanks for the idea, I saw their model I think I will modify my keg to fit into these type of forge model. (Maybe as I describe in the 3.) 

Your return really helped me thank you very much !

 

On 6/25/2020 at 6:50 PM, Frosty said:

Did he get back to you on the side Thomas? I don't see a second post. 

I'm not sure what to say. Do you really want our comments on a youtube how to video of someone making something they don't understand? 

I may not been clear on my video and I'll change it but this isn't a how to video, I want to make an evolution of my project to make a forge. And with timeline it to be more efficient, with help of the comments I get.  I'll specify that in the video description.

Okay you think my editing does not show what really mater, I will be more concise for the next ones. Thanks for your return

 

On 6/25/2020 at 4:11 PM, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

What type of coal are you using it looks like charcoal to me?

Sorry I saw a section coal forge and I posted in there. I thought it was the good place. 

And about the propellant I use it just charcoal. Find coal in my country is harder than finding basic charcoal ^^

[ThomasPowers]

I was worried that I had scared you off IFI  and happy that I haven't! 

Small blowers can be found used in many things: some people have used car heater blowers for instance though they run on 12VDC.  I've used a blower that came out of a Copy machine before.  Here in the USA some of the high efficiency house furnaces have a blower to assist the exhaust of the burners and when such furnaces need to be replaced the blowers are usually NOT what failed.  My local HVAC repair shop has a pile of old furnaces that they take to the scrap yard and for a dozen doughnuts I can get permission to snag a blower from one.  Perhaps the most unusual one I have came from "the black hole of Los Alamos"  a surplus store that was filled with items for the Los Alamos labs and was almost a museum in itself of the early Atomic bomb work.  Anyway they had a small blower with AEC inscribed on it, (Atomic Energy Commission) that I had to pick up---and yes *everything* there is checked for radioactivity before sale!

You can use an over powered blower; you just have to figure a way to throw away most of the air. (They are often very noisy too.)

Changing the title to indicate that the video is not suggested as a method of building a forge; but just your  experiments that way would make a lot of folks happy here.  It could be worse; I remember one such video where the person says "I've never done this before; but this is the way you do it."   I think that video should have stopped right before the "but".

[Frosty]

Nolan: I'm glad you didn't leave us, rereading my response I came across as pretty snarky and shouldn't have. I'll have to keep in mind you are not showing how to videos, you're showing more of a video journal or Log book. 

Charcoal requires a soft air blast and works more efficiently in a side blast forge than a bottom blast.  This requires nothing special, a hole or trench in mineral soil and a piece of pipe are all the fancy necessary. Providing air is pretty simple I put together a surprisingly effective forge while camping on a river sand bar. The air blast was driven by a sheet metal funnel facing into the wind. 

What holds the dirt at a comfortable working level is unimportant so long as it's strong and roomy enough. Old BBQs work a treat, few people suspect you aren't grilling a steak or burgers unless they get close and pay attention. And heck, there's no reason not to cook lunch over a charcoal forge unless you're using welding flux that is. Borax isn't tasty and if you eat enough can be toxic. 

I admit I mostly run a propane forge but still enjoy solid fuel fires, they are FAR better for selectively heating work, I don't really need to heat 6" of a part to set a rivet. Propane heats everything in or at the forge opening.

Frosty The Lucky. 

 

[NolanF]

Hi, 

Not to worry as I said I am here to seek advices and returns about my project and videos. All the things you told really affected me in good. I am currently planning on changing the air flow of my tiny forge. I found a 12VDC fan I got from an old computer and it's making enough air I think, I'll show you when It's done ^^

On 6/26/2020 at 10:44 AM, ThomasPowers said:

Perhaps the most unusual one I have came from "the black hole of Los Alamos"  a surplus store that was filled with items for the Los Alamos labs and was almost a museum in itself of the early Atomic bomb work.  Anyway they had a small blower with AEC inscribed on it, (Atomic Energy Commission) that I had to pick up---and yes *everything* there is checked for radioactivity before sale!

The place you describe seems to be really interesting. I saw a video on the black hole shop, I am a sound engineer and seeing all these vintage electronic device make me jealous. I wish I could visit this place. 

 I mentioned it in the description of the video =)

 

On 6/26/2020 at 11:58 AM, Frosty said:

Charcoal requires a soft air blast and works more efficiently in a side blast forge than a bottom blast.

As I said above, I am changing the blower into a computer supply fan. It make enough air I think and I love it cause it's silent (a good point for neighbors). 

I first wanted to make a propane forge but, I though playing with gas could be really dangerous when you are not experienced into these systems. It's far too dangerous for me I think. I start in a more traditional way, with charcoal. 

Anyway thank you for you comments. Have a good day

Nolan 

[ThomasPowers]

Nolan; I was able to visit the "Black Hole of Los Alamos" when the original owner was still alive; but not doing well. It's all gone now though some of the items are in various museums. I remember being handed a solid Tungsten collimator; amazingly heavy for it's size!

[NolanF]

Sound amazing ! I wish I could have visited it when it was still "up".