Ian Wille Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Mylore, I went and removed the plugins from the application and system, and then re-downloaded them from Terry's website. I followed the installation instructions he gives, reopened Sketchup, and received no error message, and the plugins showed up. All the plugins seem to be working fine.I don't know what changed this time (as I have been removing and reinstalling the plugins all evening trying to get them to work), but something did. Everything seems ok now. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Wille Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Mylore, That might have been the problem. It took me multiple tries before the plugins would work. Terry, I had done all of that when I downloaded the plugins earlier. For some reason though, they didn't work. That was when I was getting the error message. However, I went and redownloaded the plugins, and now everything is working fine. The plugins are wonderful, and are a blast to use! They made a great program even better. I look forward to play around and using them for some projects I have in mind. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 It's working now. I had to go into my program files and move the unzipped files to the correct plugins folder. For some reason it created it's own folder rather than just following the path. Oh well, it gave me an opportunity to win one over one of these pestiferous thinky machines. Thanks Terry. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Yellin was a serious character who demanded a lot and delivered a lot. He didn't have any problem working from his own drawings. He also didn't have any trouble using state of the art equipment to produce his iron work. There are a lot of machine produced elements arc welded to his projects. Heck, if the welds weren't visible they may not even be cleaned up. That doesn't lessen the artistry nor beauty of them though. A computer is nothing but an inert lump of plastic, glass, metal and trace elements without a human to direct it. It's just highly refined dirt in a human defined form. Computers don't DO anything, anymore than a hammer. People do things using the tools their god given wit allows them to make. When do you think the river's going out? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Hey,Frosty!It's only been warm a couple of days(-20F just last week),so there's hardly any overflow even right by the bank.River solid as can be,everyone travelling long distances,bird-hunting,and such like.Just traded some forgework for a caribou quarter,it came from close to 200 miles N from here,so break-up is not imminent,and travelling is still way safe.It will change quickly,though,can post ise-run photos,if it'll be anything other than the mush-out of the last few years. Still beg to differ;Yellin,with his immense experience,drew to his understanding of how the stuff moves.Access to great sketching software would likely lead to the opposite,that can also be executed with the modern tools.Then,the shape can be water-jetted,CNC'd,or cast in Al,same effect-it wonders off the deformation dictated by the plasticity of iron,which is what gives the forgework it's class. An example may be the hot-cut split.The tines are trapezoidal in section,with the extra lobed,sort of,bevel.They look,but mainly bend,differently from the hack-saw cut ones. Also,the final mass of finished object is impossible to represent in 2-D.Good ironwork contains 0 mill-rolled stock,and is balanced intuitively,not by measurement(many of complex and "same" elements in Tellin's work are actually very different,in size and shape,if one looks closely,it's balanced overall,as a unit,not by the unifirmity of parts).The work ,because of the many facets and bevels looks radically different with the change of lighting,finish,or on photographs. All those things are just easier come by through forging,whence they spring from,than through conception,be it direct-eyeball,or the extention of brain/eyeball-the computer. I'm playing with some very old axes now.Their shape is determined by the forging method,period.The shape,in turn,jives with the certain woodworking operation(they're all broad axes/hatchets).That method of woodworking determines the joinery,which,in turn,dictates it's own architectural style,all those beautiful Scandinavian stave jobs.All that comes directly out of the secifics of the deformability of iron/steel laminate.Why mess with perfection?! Collectors of Inuit carvings value most the very old stuff,because it was carved without the light,by feel only.Lights,Dremel(and AutoCAD) cannot compare to our given intuition,so they're just a distraction,a rabbit-trail.Yourself,wouldn't you much rather posess a funky,deformed,hand-forged tool or object?Neurally,it speaks to ya,becomes a cherished posession,wether a much more "perfect",machined finished deal can be souless and leaves one indifferent....Maybe it's just so dark inside this dog that i've been stuck in forever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Glad to hear that several of you have overcome your installation problems. Any feedback you have regarding the installation instructions and/or the plugins themselves will be greatly appreciated. Ian - Thanks for your positive comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 What I originally thought was a problem with the software was a problem with my mental capacity. Can't overcome that but I just thought REAL hard again and, oh yeah, re-read the instructions and, it began to fall into place. I don't know it I could ever turn what I drew into a forging but it really looks COOL! Thanks again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 althow I agree with allot Jake is saying, and with his general sentiment towards this isue, I must differ on some points. In modernday designing methods one cooperates material en technique specific paremeters, for example ; Jake tell's us he can draw things he can not forge, but true yearss of experiene he can estimate what he can and can't draw. But in the right modeling software i can set my line's so thats they will have the same stifenes en bending property's as metal on a givin temprature, so i would only be able to draw what i can actually forge.. this is by now means a replacement foor experience, but it is a usefull tool, just like the hamer u 'r all using. on the software topic, scetch up is a nice piece of software, its easy verry, acceable to plug ins and best of all its for free... but ... its now where near a full scale modeling package. there are some opensource packages out there witch all have theire strong and weak points. I myself use rhinoceros, its not free, but not to expencive either, its works verry wel and verry fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Terry - wow. how do you sleep with all that math rattling around in your brain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 Jake: We're not talking about something that lets a computer blacksmith for us, it's an electronic sketch pad that does some mundane and tedious tasks automatically. Following your logic we shouldn't use a drafting table, "T" squares and such either. Heck, even sketching a project is cheating. Still, I CAN sketch a project, and elements on the floor and build to match. I can estimate my materials, bend allowances, drops, wastage and such. Making drawings I can read and understand is no problem. Visualizing a project in place is a little more challenge but I have practice. What I CAN NOT do is show a customer a chalk sketch on the floor and reliably expect they can visualize it on their deck, in front of their fireplace or such. As for not liking materials estimators, almost every blacksmithing book I've seen, written by a blacksmith, has page after page of formula in the back for estimating materials, calculating curves, bends, weights, etc. etc. There's something else to think about as well. A computer and it's software is a tool, nothing more. Just because you have a tool doesn't mean you have to use it. HOWEVER if you do NOT have a tool you can NOT use it. There's nothing wrong to pick a period in time and geographical place to model your craft on, call it tradition if you like. If you can find people willing and able to pay you a living to ply your craft using period methods and tools, more power to you. Tom Latane comes to mind. However, how many people do you think the market can support like that? Seriously, must we guesstimate everything? Is it cheating to use a calculator? Is geometry a bad thing too? Pencil and paper? How about modern steel? My favorite anvil, made in 1933, is cast steel with a HC steel face welded on during casting. Is it too new? Life is about compromise whether we like it or not. The real world market isn't going to pay a shop rate in a competitive market if a person isn't going to be competitive. Unless a person's work is extraordinary s/he MUST be competitive or find another profession. Having a tool on the shelf that can shave hours or even days off a project without compromising the quality of the finished product is a good thing. If a (WEALTHY) customer wants to pay my shop rate + to do IT the way it was done 2,000 bce. All they have to do is show me the money. Once the check clears I'll go about hiring the guys to search out the bog iron, the donkeys to haul it, colliers to make the charcoal, stone masons to build the smelter, boys to work the goat stomach bellows, etc. Till then? I ain't holdin MY breath, I'll do my best to be competitive. They're not my rules, I just have to live by them. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseRidge Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I've downloaded it but not had time to try it out yet... Regarding its 3D capabilities versus flat renderings, many of the people I have done work for have big problems visualizing things from drawings, pictures work better for them. I can sketch and draft, but only copy something with enough accuracy to really show the detail. I'm hoping that this program will help in that department.... The way I look at computers is as just another tool.... very specialized and only useful in a limited number of applications, but anything that saves time and money is worth the trouble.... I look at it as another form of jig, useful for making repetitive items..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Plains Forge Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Sketchup is pretty powerful and easy to learn. I used to use it a lot for design until I realized I was spending too much time doing Sketchup and not enough time working. It can get pretty addictive. But, it is great if you want to get something professional looking drawn up quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseRidge Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I tried it last night and downloaded the mods that was earlier in the thread... Looks like it should be easier than what I've been doing.... certainly do NOT want to do another scale mockup..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Plains Forge Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I have been using SketchUp for about 18 months to create working drawings for metalwork designs. It is very easy to use, but - like all tools - it takes some time to learn. To increase the usefulness of SketchUp in metalwork design, I have written some "plugins" (extensions) for SketchUp. They draw curved tapered shapes common in decorative metalwork (see attached figure) and calculate the amount of stock required to make the tapers. These plugins are available free of charge on the website www.drawmetal.com - Metalwork Design. That website also has examples of metalwork fabricated from SketchUp drawings.Please note that the plugins are "beta" software...meaning they do not have any obvious bugs (or bugs known to me) - but they will benefit from more testing. I have not had any issues with precision. SketchUp supports specifying dimensions with as many as six decimal places. Terry Hey that is great, I just noticed this post. I was going to say, drawing tapers/scroll ends was one of the big problems I ran into, and it's great to see that someone smarter than me already figured it out. I don't do too much custom work anymore, so I probably won't be doing too much Sketchup, but that taper feature will be great if I need it in the future. I still think nothing beats a nice hand drawing, and you can lose a lot of time fooling around with Sketchup. If you are really just "sketching" I would recommend doing it by hand. If you are presenting something to a customer or really need to see what a design will look like in 3D, then Sketchup would be worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Plains Forge Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I tried it last night and downloaded the mods that was earlier in the thread... Looks like it should be easier than what I've been doing.... certainly do NOT want to do another scale mockup..... Just follow the online tutorials and it will teach you most everything you need to know, that's how I learned how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Just wanted to let everyone know that I have updated the metalworking plugins (extensions) for SketchUp that I wrote for drawing curved tapers and estimating the amount of stock required to create the tapers. You can download the updated versions from www.drawmetal.com - Download If you are using the plugins, I encourage you to download and install this latest version. It fixes some important bugs and includes a few usability enhancements. To install, just replace all of the current plugin files with the corresponding ones in the new version. I have also added a couple of JPG's of SketchUp models and the corresponding metalwork to the gallery at www.drawmetal.com - Gallery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks Terry. I uploaded and installed the updates. Much appreciated. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruuf Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 For my workshop drawings I use Powershape by Delcam. Its free, not too hard to use, very acurate, and seems to be fully functional. Has free tutorials too. I really like it. Needs a bit of RAM otherwise is a bit slow to load. I just use the line drawings rather than the solid modeling, as it is a proper 3D CAD package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Here's yet another announcement of updated plugins for drawing curved tapers in SketchUp. The previous version (1.0) had a bad bug that impacted users with a French, Spanish, German or Italian locale. I apologize to international users for not having been more sensitive to those pesky commas in positional notation. In any event, you can download the latest version (1.01) from www.drawmetal.com - Download. Alternatively, if you need more detailed installation instructions you can also download the plugins from www.drawmetal.com - Installation Instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 In response to a request for more information on how to use the (free) Curve Maker plugin to draw spirals, I prepared a tutorial (available at www.drawmetal.com - Tutorials). I welcome feedback on this tutorial. If you are not using the latest version (1.03), you will not be able to draw some of the Archimedean spirals in the tutorial that are illustrated in the attached jpg. More information on the plugin is available at www.drawmetal.com - Curve Maker The plugin can be downloaded from www.drawmetal.com - Download Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1860cooper Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I've used Sketchup for a while and I love it. I haven't used it in the blacksmithing context yet, but its inevitable. I have a background in some of the more heavyweight 3D programs and can say SU is not a full blown 3D modeling program, but it is really fast and simple and I end up using it a lot to plan out things. Lately I've been planning some woodworking with it. The following site is very helpful for planning multi-piece projects, its woodworking, but I think in principle a lot of it applies to metal work too: Design. Click. Build. Also, there are bunches of good videos on youtube, some put out by the Sketchup team themselves, that teach about everything imaginable related to working in SU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Frosty, if it don't come with crayons, I'm lost!! LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 Crayons are good. I think that's why they took them away from me, I kept eating them. Crimson . . . Mmmmmmmm. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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