Tyler Murch Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 My brother and i went out and did this after seeing on tv them doing with copper on "cassh and treasures" on travel channel. I wanna do some bigger ones and put them in the art gallery i go to to make some money of of them. i think they will. i'd like them to be thinner and wider, which i think i should be able to get by pouring it from a little more height. it should also give it a more wild look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 You can also get textures by pouring over different materials, say largish wood chips. Just make sure whatever you're pouring onto or into is dry. Molten metal and water equal steam explosion and unforseen brands. Ayup. That'n's off'n the Double Dribble Screamin Smith Ranch. Fer sure. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry W. Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 We have a nice one hanging on the wall at the station. It was the rim on a propane delivery truck that burned along with the truck and trailer that it collided with. Luckily no one was seriously injured and it burned itself out without any other problems. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I pour bronze for a friend of mine ( a sculptor in his 80's) and I always give "splashes" away as mementos to the people who come out to watch a pour. Some of the shapes they assume are incredible. The most interesting ones come from a "breakout" - a mold will be cracked and bronze will leak out of it onto the floor - when that happens we have someone standing by to pour silica sand in it's path to stop it from running under my feet ( I'm the only one who can't move as I'm in control of the crucible) - when the bronze combines with the sand it really takes on a great shape as well as some interesting texture from the sand. As Frosty said - make sure anything you pour onto (or into) is COMPLETELY dry - the slightest bit o' moisture will make frying bacon naked seem like a walk in the park! Even a small bit of latent moisture in a concrete floor will sends spatters way farther than you'd imagine! Also make sure that what you pour into is not undercut (small cracks and lips the metal can get under) - if it is you'll never get the metal to release it. Post some pics of what you end up with - I've never heard of anyone trying to sell them before - I'd be interested to hear how well they do. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 One more bit - (I shoulda re-read your OP) You mentioned wanting thinner and wider - DON'T pour from a greater height! It'll only splash very dangerously - just pour with a smaller amount very quickly right next to the surface of what you're pouring into - it'll take a few tries to figure out the volume and speed but because what you want to do is really unsafe take your time to work out a good technique! I've attached a couple showing a breakout and one where I missed a cup by a bit showing how even just a few inches of height gets the metal flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dwyer Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I used to do this quite a bit with sterling silver on the jewelry scale. In that case I did pour directly into water. The shapes were stupendous. Sold quite a few, but then I'd add jump rings and hang them from chains for necklaces or put pins on them for broaches, etc. A lot of the time I'd set cabochons of semi-precious gems on them. Do be careful of the height thing. There's a reason Quasimoto used molten metal to get even with his tormentors: it burns flesh right off of bones! Chyancarrek: That's some mighty impressive casting you're doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 what can you melt aluminum in? does it have to be cast iron? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 SaintJohn: Cast iron is fine - ladles in the forge work well for small amounts. A piece of steel pipe with a bottom welded on works but watch for contamination from the scaling of the iron If you want to pour clean, use a ceramic or graphite crucible - they come in sizes suited to any pour. Graphite cruce's are really affordable for someone just starting out. Here's a link to an outfit that's just outstanding to deal with - good prices, great people! budgetcastingsupply.com Farmer Phil, Man I gotta tell you - pouring three or four hundred pounds of molten metal like a hot cup o' joe is just the best! I've been working with my friend for so long that we just have each other's movements down. People who come out to watch say it looks like an industrial ballet - sans the tutu's of course . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 If I want to melt down some aluminum to get to the pouring stage, say stage one of making wire into a solid lump, does it shrink? If I use a square steel box to do the first melt, will I be able to get it out. Or do I have to use a sloped pot. I have a lot of aluminum wire to melt down. thanks. for the idea on the crucibles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dwyer Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 One typical way is to rig up an ingot mold with two separate L shaped pieces that you can adjust in or out to be narrower or wider. They get clamped together so you can un-clamp them afterwards and pop out the ingot. They, in turn can be clamped on a base piece. But with aluminum I should think you could just pour into a sand cast. Are you going to do some of the styrofoam casting that was so popular a while back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 You can make ingots with angle iron open side up with partitions welded at intervals. The intervals should match your crucibles. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Hey Saintjohn Frosty's tip on making the molds the same length as your cruce is deep is spot on - Nothing worse than having an ingot stick out and not being able to cap your furnace! As far as shrinkage goes - it will vary with the metal and alloy - say 2 percent to 20 percent. Pour your metal in a known size then compare it to the original. The ingots will pop right out of the mold if you flip them shortly after they harden but don't cool. When you make the molds make sure there are no cracks or holes anywhere otherwise the metal seeps in and you'll never get them out. The ingot molds you see in the pics are 3" angle with 1/4 plate welded on the end. Notice the angle on the ends - this assures the ends of the ingots will pop right out and not hang up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dwyer Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 One typical way is to rig up an ingot mold with two separate L shaped pieces that you can adjust in or out to be narrower or wider. They get clamped together so you can un-clamp them afterwards and pop out the ingot. They, in turn can be clamped on a base piece. But with aluminum I should think you could just pour into a sand cast. Are you going to do some of the styrofoam casting that was so popular a while back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 are you using gas for heat there? thanks for the ingot info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Hey Saintjohn, The furnace you saw in the earlier pics is a blown (blower fed) diesel injected type. There's a pump on the blower assembly that injects the fuel into the airflow. The pic below is a furnace I made for doing small pours - it's a blown propane type running about 3-4 psi. Really, it's just a propane forge sitting on it's end. Very simple to make - I used a piece of cast iron water main and welded a bottom on. Lined with 2" Kaowool on sides and bottom with a soft brick top. Real quiet and well behaved. The crucible you see is graphite. I included a pic of the whole set-up. That's my brother pulling a cruce for an aluminum pour. Because I'm pressed for space, I put the whole thing on a wheeled cart so I can move it out of the way when not being used The goblets were done using this furnace and were a commission from some local fire dancers. I used scrapped aluminum sports car racing wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 There's another way of making a melting furnace that has advantages. The furnace body lifts off the crucible instead of having to reach down into it. It eliminates one step in handling and every time you change tooling, grip, etc. increases the danger of a spill. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I've been working with my friend for so long that we just have each other's movements down. People who come out to watch say it looks like an industrial ballet - sans the tutu's of course . . . You might be able to sell tickets if you wore the tutu. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dwyer Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Chyran, Thanks for the pix of the upside down forge, aka foundry. What did you use for molds for the goblets? How do you calculate smelt amounts for your cast items? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hey Phil, I do lost wax so small molds like those for the goblets are just straight plaster I get from a pottery supply house in Portland Or. I make a tube out of roofing felt (plaster won't stick to it) put in a tube of chicken wire to give them a little extra strength, place the wax then pour the mix. For larger molds I use the plaster with silica sand and perlite to bulk out the mix. I never calculate the amounts - I just cook more metal than I know I need and pour the excess off into my ingot molds - over time I've gotten to where I can eyeball it to within about 25 percent - I've never been an exact sort o' fella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hey Frosty, Yeah, vertical lift furnaces are cool. I worked with some folk in a small art foundry in Portland that had a set up like that. Their pours were larger so the cruce's had to be yolked - the bottom of the furnace was on a trolly so it could be pulled clear of the furnace body then picked up with an overhead hoist. Hey Ron, You know, we gave the tutu idea some thought - but decided against it when we all had the simultaneous vision of all that frilly fabric in flames around our waists . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dwyer Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hey Chyan, Did you sculpt each goblet in wax or make a model then cast wax repeats? Do you use the same foundry shell as the furnace to melt the wax out of the molds before smelting the metal or do you have a separate oven for that? Also, how do you vent out all your fumes, both smoke from the wax melt off and from the metal smelting? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hey Phil, For the goblets I lathed out a wooden master then made a plaster mold from that. Poured my wax with the goblet being one solid piece. Because I was making these for fire dancers to hold onto, I took the wax and separated it into two pieces - the cup as the upper section then the base/handle as the lower. This allowed me to drill and tap both pieces to accept the wick stem inside the cup and place a leather washer in between the cup and the vase to isolate the heat I built a small burn-out kiln from an old gas furnace body. I have a fuel regulating pyrometer set-up to control the heat during burnout and because I have to convert my space into a foundry when I want to cast metal, everything is on wheels. I roll the kiln out next to the bay door and use a vent stack that goes from 90 degrees horizontal to 90 degress vertical. (Like stacking a wood stove through a wall) That does a great job of taking the fumes outside. When I pour I just open up the whole shop and turn on my overhead fans - it keeps the area fume free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Oops - pics didn't make it Let's try again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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