Powderfinger Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have a nice propane forge that I built a few years back, single burner, pretty standard design. The forge works fine with my 20 pound tank and will use all the propane until empty. I also have a 100 pound tank that will run the forge when full but when the volume drops to about a half tank it won't flow hardly any gas, barely enough to stay lit. I use an acetylene regulator, actually I have two and get the same result with each. It doesn't show any pressure with the big tank even though there is plenty of fuel. The tank valve is wide open and the regulator also wide open. Has anyone else had this problem or use a different regulator setup? I only have the single hundred pound tank so I don't have another to try to see if it's a problem with the tank. The tank was made in 2002 and I have had it since new and used to use it with a wall heater and it would drain the tank. Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryson489 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I've had this same problem. Am sorry to say I don't have an answer though, but look forward to someone else's input. Similar set up. I've got one 100lb and a couple 20s. It's happened on both sizes and with a couple regulators. Once it cleared up after switching tanks and cleaning everything I could take apart on the line from the tank to the burner. But the second time it did it, it just went away after turning the gas off then relighting the forge. So I have no idea what's causes it. I feel your pain though, very frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy98 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Powderfinger said: I use an acetylene regulator, actually I have two and get the same result with each. It doesn't show any pressure with the big tank even though there is plenty of fuel. The tank valve is wide open and the regulator also wide open. Question for clarity: You're saying that once the tank is half-full, the tank-side gauge reads zero and the burner produces no/little flame and it stays that way until you fill the tank up again - so even if you shut it all down and came back a week later (with the tank above freezing temperature) the tank would still not work, and would still read zero pressure? Also: The regulator is connected directly to the tank valve (no other hoses, etc..)? What kind of connector (POL connector?) 1 hour ago, bryson489 said: But the second time it did it, it just went away after turning the gas off then relighting the forge. So I have no idea what's causes it. Are you sure your regulator(s) don't have excess flow protection? Some of the regulators designed for fryers/boilers have a excess flow protection mechanism built into them. The reset on those is to shutoff the propane at the tank, disconnect the valves, the put it all together again. Here is a good explanation: http://www.rvdoctor.com/2001/04/not-your-fathers-pigtail.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 excess flow protection was my first thought too. Usually built into the tank valve and takes effect if you open the valve fast on a heavy propane use item like a burner. I've had one that I used to have to tap it gently to get it to unset itself after it locked up---traded that for a different tank ASAP. (I usually get refills as it's cheaper.) Some tanks are fussier than others about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy98 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said: Usually built into the tank valve and takes effect if you open the valve fast on a heavy propane use item like a burner. ...I've always been confused on whether excess flow valves are actually on the tanks. Are they on all tanks? Or only larger tanks? I read one thing that suggested only motor-home tanks had them, but that for BBQ tanks at least it was always in the pigtail. I've had a hard time finding clear answers on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Welcome aboard Powderfinger, glad to have you. You'll have to tell us the story behind your webhandle sometime. Anyway, if you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised at how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance. About your problem. Spend the $20-30 and buy a real high flow/psi propane regulator. Unless it's rated for propane acet regulators tend to get their guts eaten by the highly chemically active propane. Open the tank valve SLOWLY and it won't "usually" trip the excess flow valve. If you're exchanging tanks like I do specify a commercial tank they don't require the "safety" devices the typical home use tanks do. I exchange 20 and 40lb. bottles indiscriminately and have never had the excess flow valve shut it down. My forges have a 1/4 turn ball valve at the forge and another on the tank. My forges are usually multiple burner set ups so the prop is run to a manifold and then to individual burners via 1/8" copper tubing. If I had all my burner valves open and spun the tank valve open quickly it WILL engage the overflow valve. The things are there to prevent folks burning their house down because something cuts or burns the supply hose. A sudden discharge of propane trips the safety valve. Open the burner valves slowly and you're fine. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I don't know about up where you are but here in the USA the excess flow became standard on small tanks. Large and "industrial" tanks were not required to get them at that time. I know some welders that were able to keep smaller tanks without the excess flow limiter as they were "commercial". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderfinger Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 Thanks for the replies guys! Bryson, it is at least good to hear someone has the same problem so it isn't just me. Andy, yes the 100 pound can sit for however long not hooked to anything and it doesn't work right from the time it is hooked up. These are acetylene regulators like for cutting torches. One has a male end that threads left hand into the propane tank, the other has a female end that I use an adapter that makes it the same as the first one. They both will work with the 20 pound tank. 17 minutes ago, Frosty said: Welcome aboard Powderfinger, glad to have you. You'll have to tell us the story behind your webhandle sometime. Anyway, if you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised at how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance. About your problem. Spend the $20-30 and buy a real high flow/psi propane regulator. Unless it's rated for propane acet regulators tend to get their guts eaten by the highly chemically active propane. Open the tank valve SLOWLY and it won't "usually" trip the excess flow valve. If you're exchanging tanks like I do specify a commercial tank they don't require the "safety" devices the typical home use tanks do. I exchange 20 and 40lb. bottles indiscriminately and have never had the excess flow valve shut it down. My forges have a 1/4 turn ball valve at the forge and another on the tank. My forges are usually multiple burner set ups so the prop is run to a manifold and then to individual burners via 1/8" copper tubing. If I had all my burner valves open and spun the tank valve open quickly it WILL engage the overflow valve. The things are there to prevent folks burning their house down because something cuts or burns the supply hose. A sudden discharge of propane trips the safety valve. Open the burner valves slowly and you're fine. Frosty The Lucky. Thanks for the info Frosty, no interesting story behind my webhandle. It is the name of a Neil Young song that I like and I do some powder coating so I just thought it fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 If the regulators are rated "for all fuel gasses" then they should be fine. If not then not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderfinger Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: If the regulators are rated "for all fuel gasses" then they should be fine. If not then not! They don't say that Thomas, they are marked as acetylene then they say pressurized gas regulator. They are both older made in the USA regulators. I messed with it some more this evening and I think it is in the valve. When I open the valve on the 100 lb. with nothing hooked to it I can hear a good volume of gas coming out but not much pressure. When I do the same with the 20 lb. tank I hear a lot more coming out and it is down to about a 1/4 tank. So it seems there isn't enough pressure coming out of the 100 lb. to work through the regulator. I tapped on the valve and didn't notice any difference, with the valve closed I sprayed some brake clean in, blew that out with compressed air then I filled it with penetrating oil and put a silicone plug in it. I will let that sit overnight and see if it helps. I got to thinking and this tank has sat for some long periods of time so maybe something is seized up. It has about 40 or 50 pounds of propane in it so I don't know what to do about that if I want to change the valve, I guess I would just take it down by the woods on a breezy day and crack open the valve. I looked at some adjustable propane regulators on Ebay and I might try one but the setup I have now has better gages and a nice long hose that I hate to give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryson489 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 12 hours ago, Andy98 said: Are you sure your regulator(s) don't have excess flow protection? Some of the regulators designed for fryers/boilers have a excess flow protection mechanism built into them. The reset on those is to shutoff the propane at the tank, disconnect the valves, the put it all together again. That's what I though with the first one. The second regulator is a bare bones one from work. Shouldn't have it but I can't garrantee that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Powderfinger. I STRONGLY recommend you stop using regulators and hoses not intended for propane. Propane is very chemically reactive and WILL eat the diaphragm and seals in the regulator while it's degrading the hose. If the tank has set long there's no telling what made a nest in the valve. If there's liquid propane in the tank it should be pushing about 200psi at room temperature. I can't say why it wouldn't bleed the full tank pressure past any blockage so it'd give you a strong . . . puff at least when you crack the tank valve. I'd take it to the local propane supply and exchange it for another tank and let them repair or destroy and scrap that one. Propane isn't worth taking chances with it isn't worth saving a few bucks. Same goes for the regulator your using, it's BAD juju stop IT! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderfinger Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 Okay Frosty, I will look into it. Just to clarify there is no debris in the valve as it was always capped. It just looks a bit oxidized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortifiedbum Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Talked to my gas guy. Told him this story while shopping for my own tank. Told him, " guy has 100 gallon tank.... blah blah" his response was," no he doesn't. He has a 100lb tank and there is only few inches of head on a small circumference. He is burning through all the vapor dropping the pressure and there is just liquid in his tank now, you won't have that problem with a 100 gallon". Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Won't happen with a 100lb tank either. I can run four of my 3/4" T burners all day on my 100lb. tank without frost on the tank. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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