Forge rake (side poker)

[rockstar.esq]

jlp, I think I see where the fundamental misunderstanding lies. I thought you were saying the crooked rake had a shorter length handle to match the non-crooked rake.  I think I just assumed that the stock to make the handle was drawn out to make the crooked version.  Sorry, I added that confusion.

Thank you for your patience with me.  I've sincerely wondered why people made their forge rakes that way for years.  I've found time and again that old blacksmith designs have a lot of subtle wisdom in them. 

 

 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

2 hours ago, rockstar.esq said:

jlp, I think I see where the fundamental misunderstanding lies. I thought you were saying the crooked rake had a shorter length handle to match the non-crooked rake.  I think I just assumed that the stock to make the handle was drawn out to make the crooked version.  Sorry, I added that confusion.

Thank you for your patience with me.  I've sincerely wondered why people made their forge rakes that way for years.  I've found time and again that old blacksmith designs have a lot of subtle wisdom in them. 

 

 

 

Sorry if I sound grumpy..      OK..            I'll try this one more time..  

Torque is the amount of twisting force as measured in ft lbs, inch pounds, Newton meters so on, and so on..  

A lever with a fulcrum..   IE :   Balance beam....   100 lbs at each end with a pivot or fulcrum in the middle with this beam exactly in the middle should be even both sides..   

If you don't change where the fulcrum is on the board supporting the 100lbs on each end. But make one side of the board longer.. Now because one side is longer that 100lbs has a greater weight advantage.. This mechanically adds more torque to the area in contact with the pivot and as the stiction is overcome the longer end will start to move towards the ground.. 

The same is true if we keep the board centered and instead of having 100lbs at each end of the board  we have 100lbs at one end, and we put 200lbs at the other end..  Now if the board is 20ft long and we move it from the middle and we move it 10ft towards the 200lbs side  the beam with the weight will now be balanced.. but one side will be longer than the other but still in balance.. 

So, by offsetting the hook to the back side of the shaft.. You are actually moving the pivot point..   While not that far it does add up.. 

So, again..   it doesn't matter whether the hook is offset or not in use.. 

But, you can add more torque to the shaft and since the pivot is not moved further along the lever you can put in more less perceived torque when you turn the shaft and get more power at the end.. Vs at a 90D to the shaft.. 

But, since it's the handle you are holding that can feel good in the hand the hook end plays very little into how your hand feels on the handle and perceived power being put into the handle to turn the rake.. 

I don't use a rake as my only forge tool..  I use it to shuffle around coke and coal but usually just to pull clinker out, break up large coke lumps but that's about it. Oh and poke holes in the top of the fire.. 

My recommendations are to make a handle that is comfortable that you can apply ample power (CONTROL) to and it doesn't make your hand tired..  Remember when you work, each items you have to use should enhance the job at hand and not tire you out any more than needed.. 

[aessinus]

After reading and rereading...

JLP, to me it's very similar to balancing a rotary wing blade, lengthwise & chordwise, to maximize power transmission (vibration irrelevant).  Your explanation was quite clear to me.

[Daswulf]

JLP, physics of certain things for me barely sink in. Other things make perfect sense to me. So, sometimes I just have to see for myself. Tho I wasn't arguing. 

So after using these two other pokers ( since they were there and premade), I decided to give that design a shot. 

The wooden one was light and I liked it but some joint in the handle delaminated and I had this other poker looking thing which is heavy and a bit awkward. So after giving the style you show a try, I love it atleast after one night so far. Good control and balanced. Thumbs up. I didn't forge weld the handle since I'm not good at that yet and even had a nicer scroll on it before messing that up but what the hay. It's comfortable in the hand and works great. 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

On 10/4/2016 at 11:13 AM, aessinus said:

9 hours ago, Daswulf said:

JLP, physics of certain things for me barely sink in. Other things make perfect sense to me. So, sometimes I just have to see for myself. Tho I wasn't arguing. 

So after using these two other pokers ( since they were there and premade), I decided to give that design a shot. 

The wooden one was light and I liked it but some joint in the handle delaminated and I had this other poker looking thing which is heavy and a bit awkward. So after giving the style you show a try, I love it atleast after one night so far. Good control and balanced. Thumbs up. I didn't forge weld the handle since I'm not good at that yet and even had a nicer scroll on it before messing that up but what the hay. It's comfortable in the hand and works great. 

 

 

 

Nice job on the rake.. Like the handle and twist design, you spent some time on it cutting in the line in the handle and such..   I find it is less tiring in use with the offset hook maybe you will find the same thing..

 In overall reality the handle design (comfortable, plenty of leverage)  can play a more important role (straight vs looped) but the tool as a whole makes or breaks the design..  Nice execution..  Thanks so much for sharing..  

[Daswulf]

This is out of thinner material then I thought would work but it all worked out. that night it worked out well. Normally I would have went with a different handle design but I gave the idea of your style you went with a try and so far like it. I will check back but after forging the rest of the night with it I like it. the hold and leverage is good and I dont feel much weight in it and honestly it does everything I need it to with the fire. But I will check back with final thoughts.