Forging Carver Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 So from my research around on THIS site, I have not seen a post that goes through the correct steps in making a bean can/ soup can/ cofee can/ paint can forge. I have picked up little bits of information from this site, as well as others on the proper way to make one. I hope this helps you guys out, and if there is something that some of you more experienced guys see something I forgot or said wrong, let me know. So first you need a can whether its a bean can or a paint can or a variety of other different metal cans. Now you need a stand. This can be as simple or complex as you want it. You can have a table top forge with just legs to a stand just for the forge that is very long and consists of a adjustable stock stand and tong rack. The possibilities are endless and can be customized to your liking. Just go to a reputable blacksmithing/ knifemaking website to get some pictures and ideas. Your next step is to get a insulation that is meant for high temperatures. From what I have read, kaowool seems to be a popular choice for most guys who make gas forges and I hear that if you call HVAC place you can get scrap pieces that will work for a forge this size very well. DO NOT USE A PLASTER OF PARIS AND SAND MIX OR CLAY THAT IS NOT MEANT FOR HIGH TEMPERATURES! I have learned this when I made my first cofee can forge when I found out that PP+S mix cracks, doesn't last long, and a big pain to make the forge out of. Do not listen to youtube videos with MOST people showing how they make their forge or a how to on a non blacksmithing website such as instructables. Some videos I have seen do a very good job and show the correct way to make a gas forge, but I haven't seen a good one on a soup can forge. So what you do with the kaowool is roll it up tight and fit it in the can. You then want to get some refactory cement or a good kiln sealant and apply it to the kaowool. This will harden it up a bit. You then need to cut a hole for a propane torch and it is done. I haven't yet made a proper one yet, so that is part of the reason I made this just to verify I will do this right. There are a few questions I still have: How thick should the kaowool extend out from the the edge of the tin can? How much coating do you apply to the kaolwool? Does it matter what angle or where you cut the hole for the propane torch? What's the best torch to use? Is a burner such as a T Burner neccesary for this type of forge? Thank you so much and sorry if these were answered but I looked around on this site and others. I also figured these questions might help other guys on this "how to". Wayne Coe is a very good person to get your forge supplies from: http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Forge_Supplies.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 That's a pretty darned cogent series of questions FC. I'll be happy to address them. You have most everything right and are looking for details yes? Kaowool is a brand name and there are a number of equally good ceramic blankets, Kaowool is just easy to remember. Roll the outer layer so it's just a bit tight. Roll the inner layer so it's either a little tight or has enough room for a shelf if you wish to inset the floor. Either way you want the inner layer to fit snug so it stays in place by compression. There are a lot of ways to arrange the blanket, floors, etc. What you like best is a matter of your experience, we can't be a lot of help with what works for you but we can help with tips for different constructions. Wash the blanket with rigidizer and kiln wash AFTER you drill the burner ports or it can turn into a real mess. You can place the outer layer, drill the burner port and rigidize, no problem you don't have to do it all at once. Repeat for the inner liner and kiln wash. Bring it JUST past the end of the can, it's too fragile to be sticking out much. You don't want exposed fibers and breaking it with bumps, etc. is a bad thing. You can use a fire brick laying on it's side in front of the can for an outside table and support for your work. One would also be a good place to stand some of the IR baffles Mike keeps talking about. The kiln wash is the high temperature, flux resistant and physically tough inner surface of the forge that is in contact with the flame, is incandescently HOT and gets scuffed, gouged, poked, etc. by steel. Mike is making good arguments for applying it thicker than I normally do, I believe he recommends around 3/4" of IR reflecting kiln wash like ITC-100, Plistec(I think?) or a home brew. Burner placement and alignment is again a matter of experience but Mikey is Dr. Frankenburner hisowndarned self so I'd try following his advice. We even agree on a number of points, we like a tangential flame for a couple reasons. First it causes a strong vortex in the chamber distributing the flame more evenly so the whole forge is a more even temperature. Secondly, the vortex deflects the back blast of the burner flame and so reduces back pressure significantly. This allows you to close the forge more and retains the heat better. Tangential burner mounts are most often aimed across the top of the chamber so it isn't aimed directly across the chamber at the far wall. One of our guys and a few others are aligning their burners from the floor pointed up along one wall. I'm becoming more fond of this arrangement and will probably build a forge this way one of these days so I can play with it all the time. Just drill the hole in the shell (tin can) with enough room you can wiggle the burner a little. Then as you install the blanket, drill the port so the burner is aimed across the liner, NOT at it. Repeat. With the burner aligned and however you mount it you can roll the forge till you find the alignment you like, across, up down, whatever. The only PITA thing playing with the up/down alignment might make for you is the floor. The floor should be at the bottom but don't worry you can make the next forge with the burner aimed where you like it. Yeah, no matter how well you make the thing it's going to wear out. Making a stand is a matter of tinkering a little, you could prop it up between couple rocks if you wanted, I saw one where the guy drove a few nails in rows and set his tube forge on the heads. A couple inches of loose dirt was the heat shield that prevented the old wooden table top from catching fire. The stand can be anything that holds it reasonably securely. It isn't going to need to hold more than a few ounces but will need to be secure against bumps. Bean can forges are light so they bump easily. That and off flammable stuff is about it. Tin snips and self drilling sheet metal screws open up a world of stands. Remember the only hard rules of forge stands is they keep the forge from moving around and support the work. All the rest of the nifty ideas we have are gravy. What kind of burner? Up to you really. The most significant factor is the volume of the forge, second is shape. Most bean can forges work fine with a Bernzomatic soldering torch but they're pretty small chamber sized. A rr spike knife is about max work in one. A well tuned 1/2" T will reliably bring 150-175 cu/in chamber to welding temperature. If you want a smaller chamber than that you're looking at making one of Mike's burners or at least using his technique for making gas jets. What's best is unimportant you really want something that works well, leave best for folk who like to eek the most possible from devices. Once they've sweated their hair off we can thank them and use their designs. Thank you Mikey. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 Alright thanks frosty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 My pleasure, just remember this isn't rocket science keep it within the working limits and it should do just fine. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 "Wash the blanket with rigidizer and kiln wash AFTER you drill the burner ports or it can turn into a real mess." Nice point there, Frosty. Frosty, I recommend up to 1/4" of refractory, mortar, etc. as a hard coating (AKA hot-face) over rigidized ceramic fiber, and also plan to try using you "kiln wash" idea before doing it my preferred way on the next forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 "What's best is unimportant you really want something that works well, leave best for folk who like to eek the most possible from devices. Once they've sweated their hair off we can thank them and use their designs. Thank you Mikey. Your welcome Frosty; so that's why my hair is thinning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Every good rule has a possible exception, One friend of mine uses a top-dead-center position with his burner pointing straight down at the forge floor; it works beautifully for him, but he only heats up to 1/4" square stock with his burner turned down to the minimum pressure that will produce a single wave front neutral flame. this is as close to the slow flame performance of a ribbon burner as you're going to get with a jet-ejector burner design. I wouldn't even mention this exception if bean can forges hadn't been listed among his possible choices, for anything larger I use a tangential position with my burners (twenty degrees down from top-dead-center). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 On 12/30/2015 at 8:55 AM, Mikey98118 said: "What's best is unimportant you really want something that works well, leave best for folk who like to eek the most possible from devices. Once they've sweated their hair off we can thank them and use their designs. Thank you Mikey. Your welcome Frosty; so that's why my hair is thinning! Dad used to say high performance thinking needs the improved cooling. Mother's response? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.