j.w.s. Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 It's that time of year again, I seem to build and re-engineer one of these things each year. lol I've got my cylinder, all the little important parts and pump from my previous c-frame, the biggest problem with it was a little too much flex for my liking, so I'm back to the H style frame with a twist. I'm waiting on some 3x4"x0.25" tubing to come in, so until then the build is on hold. The principal idea is, I'm making my frame out of 3x4, welding it together at the joints and then sandwiching the frame with 0.375" plates one either side, securing them with bolts and maybe a few welds if she needs it (but I'd like to avoid that in order to access the internals of the press which will contain the guides and possible springs for the traveling top die plate). The whole press body is 28"x32". I want the whole unit to be able to sit on a table that my rather large hydraulic tank and pump will sit under, instead of being twice the size and requiring it to be wheeled around the shop. I've rough cut the front and back panels and the cylinder mount on the plasma table. I'm just sort of making this up as I go along so I'm sure I'll be making parts here and there, but I figure I'd show what's been done so far. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRS Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I´mma take a chair and enjoy the show. Remember that every little gusset helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 I´mma take a chair and enjoy the show.Remember that every little gusset helpsGussets were always in the plan, however the exact execution was a little up in the air until this afternoon when my supplier called me back. The don't have 3"x4"x0.25" in stock at the moment.. however after he dug around, he found some 2"x4" with a 0.375" wall. So, now the idea is to make 0.375" thick L shaped gussets affixed by welds (drill 0.5" holes and fill them, grind flush) and the existing bolts on both sides of the frame, just like is found in some bridge work. I may also make 4" wide L brackets for the outside corners to get bolted and welded into place for added support. The nice thing about having a cnc plasma cutter is not being limited for certain parts. If I can draw it, I can make it. Here's and updated png overlay showing the tubes in light green-grey, gussets in red and corner brackets in blue.-J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 This is the general mock up of how I have things layed out in my head. The blue plates lock the cylinder in place as an added measure to the preexisting bolts in the base.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 J, can I check that out sometime? I've started the planning for an H-style also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Sure Allen, you're always welcome to come by the shop, once I get the wrinkles ironed out. :) I'll probably compile a dxf file of the parts so it could be taken to any cutting operation, but in the meantime I've got get it beyond the prototype stage. :) Of course that's really only helpful if someone wants a press with only a 3" ram extension like I do. I didn't find it restrictive for welding up or drawing out billets at all, and on the previous c frame version I started by making my dies 3" tall, so if I needed more clearance I could just change one or both of the dies down for a smaller one - technically I could start with an 8" piece of stock and by changing dies a few times draw it down to 1/8th. It may be next week until I get to work on it again, my stock on ebay is dwindling so I've gotta brave the cold and make a few knives over the next few days..J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 So here's the inner frame so far, please ignore the ugly welds, I swear I'll pretty them up later but for the moment I'm dealing with flux core wire because I'm out of welding gas and didn't feel much like running anywhere as it's in the single digits here. Each corner was welded on either side of the frame before placing the gussets. The gussets are 0.375" with two channels that are being filled by a multipass weld. Three bolts will pass through each as well. The tubing is 2"x4"x0.5". Tomorrow I should have the gussets in place and smoothed out and will start drilling the holes for the front/back plates, I wish I could use my drill press for this, but I think I'm going to have to do it by hand. The more I think about it, I will probably end up welding the plates to the frame and ignore my previous idea of being able to access the interior - I may put two springs in, but they're not needed as my cylinder is is powered in both directions and I can't see them actually performing any sort of job. Anyway, it's time to get out of the cold and head home for the day.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 I got the gussets in place and cleaned up for one side. I positioned the back plate and tack welded it into place. Next step is drilling 40 holes - yay! - I had to put everything on hold today because I can't seem to remember which box my corded drill has been tucked away in. I think I might be better off going to Harbor Freight and buying one of their low speed drills. I think 550rpm will be plenty for this operation with the bits I have and everything I've read says that despite its brand it's actually a tough drill capable of some heavy action. I'd love to just use my drill press but the switch died on me this week so I'd have to replace that and the frame is already weighing in at around 200lbs which I'd have to move by hand and support it rather precariously on the table of my drill press and the arbor press which sits beside it.. Rather than move the unit 20 times I'm really leaning towards doing it by hand. Anyway, it's definitely starting to take shape. Here's a quick snap of the body/frame and one of the cylinder which is going to be mounted in it.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Got the right drill for the job, low speed - high torque. Cobalt drill bits are just going through this like butter, making nice long spirals! Yay! I have to finish drilling the holes, but here's how she's shaping up so far. Next step, I'm welding some base supports on and switching up to horizontal drilling. Fingers crossed. At the moment we're weighing in at around 180lbs. which is just about my comfort zone as far as moving by myself and I'd rather not lay it on the shop floor again ifI don't have to. For the moment the face plate is just bolted into place until I get every other aspect planned in my head. After the base and holes are drilled I'm going to mount the cylinder and focus my attention on the dies.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Dang, snapped my 29/64th on the 9th hole.. *sigh* had to step a way for a bit. A thought did occur to me though and perhaps I could get some input from someone else. How I'm designing this press, the more thoughts I have about this and that.. and knowing that sometimes unexpected moments happen, I'm really starting to think that having the front plate removable may be better. I'm sure I will lose a fractional amount of rigidity, but I could always weld the seams of the back plate entirely to the frame. The bolts I'm using are 7/16th and once I get all 24 in place I just can't see it being much of a problem, after all, it's the frame that's taking most of the force, with the front and rear panels there to pretty the whole contraption up and lend support. I'm generating around 59880 lbs of push, the frame is 0.5" walled 2"x4" and the panels are both 0.375".. numbers numbers numbers.. this is what happens when you start getting lost in your own planning.. lol. Anyone care to play with some physics simulations in their head along with me?J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 I got my cylinder liberated from my other press. opened everything up to finish the internal reenforcing and decided to do a quick test fit. So far, so good. I'm going to cut a two piece 0.875" riser that will get inserted under the cylinder from the front and the back, with slots to accommodate the four bolts, and then shim it against the top beam. Tomorrow I'll finish up with the internals and hopefully the die mechanisms. I don't want to jinx myself but I may just have a working press again by Thursday or Friday.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) *Something went wrong with that post Edited February 24, 2015 by j.w.s. double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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j.w.s. Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 After attaching that image I couldn't write a description on my phone. So, the above picture is 1 of two riser plates that slide under the cylinder from either side above the single piece 0.375" plate that the cylinder will be fastened to. These will lift the cylinder 0.625" providing a little more die clearance and provide enough clearance from the ram seal rings so the cylinder can be centered in the press. Everything is partly assembled but I had a little fluid leak when I disconnected the hoses and I didn't feel like mucking up my phone to snap another picture. Tomorrow I'll make the remaining parts and do a test run under 1/2 pressure.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCROB Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 excellent , liking this so far !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 excellent , liking this so far !!Thank you! The lack of comments was making me think that no one was interested. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Coming down the stretch. Cylinder is centered, Bar for mounting the upper dies is in place and has springs attached. I still need to figure out how I'm going to attach the ram to the bar. In a previous life this cylinder was welded in place and the cut to remove it was slightly off - I suppose I could make the needed shim and a receiver for the ram to keep the bar level and in place, Or I could just get it level and weld it like someone else obviously did. Ideally I'd find a 1.5" 12 tpi bolt to place in the female threads and weld the bolt head to the bar, but my trip to the local "has just about everything" hardware mecca turned up nothing, only 6 and 7 tpi in stock. So far so good though. I need to cut a few triangles to weld to the outer panels to hold the cylinder down and a shim for on top of the cylinder, which as luck would have it, needs to be 0.625". Well, back to SheetCam!J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger1875 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hi J,nice job, looks very compact....What kind a pump and motor are you using? I really like to know about the conveyance mass per turn of the pump and the hp and voltage of the motor. How big is the cylinder?Thanks for sharing! Freddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hi J,nice job, looks very compact....What kind a pump and motor are you using? I really like to know about the conveyance mass per turn of the pump and the hp and voltage of the motor. How big is the cylinder?Thanks for sharing! FreddieThe whole press is 26" wide and 32" tall, so it is indeed compact. The pump's plate is a little worn, but when I looked it up, off the top of my head I want to say it was 5.5 or 6.5 gmp at 3200psi. I'm probably slightly or completely wrong on this, and I just sat down at the computer so I don't feel like running back to the shop at the moment. lol Either way, I got the pump, tank and a 3 ph 5hp Marathon motor for $160 at my local treasure trove. I traded in the motor and a handful of cash for a new 240v Leeson 6hp 1750 rpm motor. The tank had 20 gal on hydraulic fluid in it, so I think I got an ok deal, and upgrading the 3ph motor to a slightly more powerful single phase motor cost me around $400. I picked up a log splitter valve, some fittings and new hoses and I think that cost me around $170. The cylinder itself I found at my treasure trove again for about $120, and it's a 5 inch cylinder with only a 3 inch stroke, but for what I do, I'm very happy with that. All said and done I think the actual force it's putting out is around 58.9k lbs - so while I call it a 30 ton press, it's more like 29 tons, but that's close enough in my book. lol There's still more work to do, but I'm slowing down a bit in the cold and I have to go feed the horses soon, but I'd like to get some work done on affixing the rod to the bar, I'm just sitting in the warm side of the shop contemplating just how I'm going to go about that. Anyway, here's a picture of the pump and tank I'm using and a quick video I shot on my phone showing the speed (if it lets me attach it). J 20150226_150410.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I really recommend that you use Batson's book to figure how to do the frame compared to your tonnage and what pump to what cylinder, etc.. Looks like you'll have plenty of strength there, but the info is out there so you know up front. Also keep your hoses to the back of the press in case something blows it's not aiming at you. Protective sleeves for your high pressure hoses is another good idea. It's all about safety. Looking forward to seeing the finished product and how it works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCROB Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 nice , I like the footprint of this build JWS....................as yours as well Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 I really recommend that you use Batson's book to figure how to do the frame compared to your tonnage and what pump to what cylinder, etc.. Looks like you'll have plenty of strength there, but the info is out there so you know up front. Also keep your hoses to the back of the press in case something blows it's not aiming at you. Protective sleeves for your high pressure hoses is another good idea. It's all about safety. Looking forward to seeing the finished product and how it works for you. First off, you were supposed to be at Stans earlier this month so I could pick your brain.. lol You were missed. I don't have a copy of Batson's book. I know it used to be available through the ABS and I know Amazon has it for a ridiculous price, I'll definitely pick it up for a read next time I have a chance. I basically looked up material strengths that met my requirements and went a few thicknesses higher - I could have made it a bit lighter but I don't intend to move this press around so there's no reason - plus I applied learned lessons from previous builds over the years. There's more gusseting and bracing that was added to the interior frame that I did not get pictures of, I just wanted to overplay my hand a bit. I've been working with two different hydraulic companies here in Manheim regarding the pump/motor requirements, fittings, hoses etc. I'm running all 10000 psi rated hoses 6 wire hoses, but I was thinking of picking up some Partek wrap just as a precaution. Right now I need a good way to keep the bar that the dies will get mounted to from being able to skew inside the frame when I put a workpiece in off of center. There's about 0.1875" of play on either side, I thought about making some L shaped pieces to drop down on either side of the bar from the top and tacking them in place. In the morning I'll work on the dies and hopefully get them finished and performing well because I've got a custom order to do tomorrow that would go so much easier with a working press. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Today I finished up the die mounting system and took the play out of the bar. Fired up the pump and ran it through a quick stress test.. Heard some creaking as everything trued itself but even at full power under load everything worked great. I cut a bunch of die plates today, made one quick one up, but I'm not super happy with it. In the morning I'll make a drawing/ flattening set and give her a good run just to see if there's anything else that need be addressed immediately. If I can get caught up on actual work, I'll try to shoot a video of it in operation. Maybe I'll even paint it.. Nah!J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 ... And she's working! Made a set of drawing dies this morning, still need a set for setting welds, but I ran her through some billet work today and this little press performed a lot better than I thought it would. There's something to be said about encasing the frame in plates. I guess it's just like putting plywood on a building frame - it's all shaky and then suddenly sound enough to live in! Cutting them out of a single piece is the key, I don't know that my design would work if the panels were welded together from pieces because everything is relying on the front and back plates to distribute the forces and unless you're capable of doing some serious stress relieving on those welds, and even then, I wouldn't put much faith in it. Anyway, here's some pictures - broken in and dirty just like everything else in my shop. If the wife lets me go play in the shop tomorrow I'll try to shoot a video.. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Here's a quick video I shot of the press in action.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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