Jump welding W1 to mild steel

[Timothy Miller]

So I have been told that jump welding mild steel is near impossible by people who really know their stuff.  I made it even harder on myself by tiring to jump weld a mild steel shank on a W1 stake top.  I have done this in wrought iron in the past and it works just fine.  I got the weld to take and twice it let go wile I did some reshaping at a lower of the heat.  I used borax with wrought iron chips as flux.  Let me reiterate I got it to weld twice on the first try but the weld had no strength.   It just let go after when went to forge the rest of the tool.  I don't have to do the job this way I just really want to. 

[JNewman]

I have had a little better luck when welding 1045 with a seamless weld using EZ weld.  I know it is mostly borax and metal filings but it does seem to weld a little better. 

 

I was at Caniron on this past weekend and was talking to Tom Latane about forging stake anvils.  What he does is to do a mortice and tenon then weld it together then weld a high carbon plate on the top.  He then mentioned that Peter Ross only jump welds them with good results.  That may be wrought iron however. 

 

Our local blacksmith group made an anchor about 16 years ago out of mild steel.  I am pretty sure the weld was a jump weld,  I was not at the meeting but just tried calling someone who was involved in the forging,  he is either not back from Caniron or has gone to his shop this morning.   If he gets back to me I will ask him.  The project was supervised by the late Charlie Sutton who did his blacksmith  apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.

[JNewman]

By the way have a look at Tom's stake here http://www.tunnelmillcrafts.com/Calendar/Calendar2010.htm  The picture is about half way down.  At Caniron he had a half done tinning stake he is making for his wife. 

 

A bick iron stake is something I want to make when I get some time.  I want to both make one forge welding and out of one piece by either splitting or upsetting. 

[Stephen Olivo]

When I have jump welded peices together including the spring steel plate welded to the top of my steak anvil I have often used tabs to hold the peice on and worked it continually at a welding/near welding heat.  I only moved to the lower heats after all the forming had been done.  The more forming at welding the better the weld will hold up.  The steels will move at different rates when hit so the lower the temp the more likely they will sheer just from one hit even when the weld is perfect.  You will see this on the end of horns or when drawn down to small cross sections as it will be easy to work at two low of a heat and there for start the sheering process.  The best advice I was ever given was to work welded peices always at a welding heat so that the sheering doesn't happen or if the weld isn't complete you are always making it a better weld as you work it into shape. 

 

 

The pictures are from a steak anvil class Thomas Latane taught down at tunnell mill that I took a while back and of my steak anvil after all the forming was done.  Still working on it but you can see where the leafe spring plate is.  

http://s48.photobucket.com/user/nicrom/library/Tom%20Latane%20making%20a%20coller/Steak%20anvil?sort=3&page=1

 

 

Hoping this helps.

[SoCal Dave]

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but what is a jump weld?  

[JNewman]

That is looking really nice Stephen!!  One thing I didn't think to ask Tom,  how did you support the top while welding the top plate on?

 

Dave a jump weld is a weld where you are butting 2 pieces together as opposed to lapping them.  In this case the shank of the t stake into the body of the top piece, but can also be 2 bars end to end.   It is usually done with a dome on the end of the bar or bars  to force scale flux etc out of the weld. As well it means you are not trying to weld the whole thing at once. 

[Stephen Olivo]

Thank you.  It will soon, with a lot of work, be done and on its way to the metal museum.  We started welding it at the center upside down striking on the bottom of the what would become the spike.  Then worked our way out each horn welding as we go most of the time upside down with fullers, set hammer, and a flatter.  Sometimes with the horn on the anvil, plate up and flatter on top.  

 

Finishing welding the first of the two horns at another smiths shop.

http://s48.photobucket.com/user/nicrom/library/second%20time%20at%20Robert%20Burns%20shop?sort=3&page=1

[Stephen Olivo]

And after re reading the original post for like the 5th time you just gave me an idea for how to better make two of my projects.  :D  I love ureaka moments :D

[JNewman]

I spoke to a guy who was involved in the anchor project this morning he is a guy who does a lot of welding including gun barrels.  It was a mild steel to mild steel jump weld.  When I mentioned what you were doing his immediate reply was to make the stake out of mild steel with just the top tool steel. 

[Timothy Miller]

I spoke to a guy who was involved in the anchor project this morning he is a guy who does a lot of welding including gun barrels.  It was a mild steel to mild steel jump weld.  When I mentioned what you were doing his immediate reply was to make the stake out of mild steel with just the top tool steel. 

This is what I did but the welds gave loose when I went back to clean up the shape.  The stake is basically a piece of 1" square mild jump welded to a piece of W1 for the top.  I have done laminated tops before in wrought iron with a tenon.  I wanted to keep it simple to see if it would be a good alternative to TIG welding.

[JNewman]

How about a cleft weld,  although I don't know how you will blend things together.

[Timothy Miller]

How about a cleft weld,  although I don't know how you will blend things together.

I think further experimentation is required.

[Stephen Olivo]

Pictures :D

[Stephen Olivo]

Please :D