Illi Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Is there an easy way to determine if a tool (such as an anvil cone) is made of cast steel vs. cast iron vs. ductile iron? The reason I ask is that this cone is cast steel according to the seller (because it rings): http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-Mandrel-Cone-Hardy-W-1-1-4-Hardy-Shaft-Blacksmith-Anvil-Forge-NO-RESERVE-/200893723249?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec632f271 However, it looks VERY similar (length of the hardy post, the placement of the serial (or whatever it is) near the bottom rim of the cone, the angle of the cone, as well as the surface texture) to this cone, which is advertised as ductile iron: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blacksmith-Tinsmith-Armor-Makers-Anvil-Cone-1-1-4-Hardy-/271153557630?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2202f07e To summarize my questions: 1) In general, is it possible to tell different materials apart based on the surface texture of the casting, or is the surface texture a function of the mold rather than the poured material? 2) Does ductile iron ring like steel? As a side note, are ductile iron tools worth buying? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Ductile iron will ring as will steel. You will not be able to tell the difference between ductile or steel by the as cast finish. Gray iron does flow better than steel or ductile and is easier to get a better finish both due to fluidity and the fact it pours at a lower temperature than steel. It can be cast in much thinner sections than steel or ductile can. Ductile is in between steel and gray as far as fluidity goes and does pour at a lower temperature than steel. Steel is the hardest to get fine detail on. However there are lots of other things that impact on finish such as the quality of the sand, the binder used, washes used, moulding method used and the metallurgy of the heat. I would say the two cones are the same. I doubt you would ever wear out a ductile iron cone mandrel unless you were using it to make thousands of the same piece over and over. In which case you would hopefully have enough profit to be able to buy a new one or make some dedicated tooling. Full disclosure, I supply Blacksmith Depot with ductile iron cone mandrels and am currently forging 4140 smaller cone mandrels for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hi John, There are an awful lot of people who are very happy with the ductile iron cones you make. They take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. :) :) Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Casting texture: It's all in the mold. I once cast my thumbprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 We have a ductile iron mandrel (One of Mr Newmans Id say) and it has had many,many rings and curls forged around it..Still looks almost new...Honestly, before Id pay what that enay auction will go for Id buy one of the ductile iron cones..Half the price and you'll get the same use of it. If i were a betting man, Id put even money that they are the same cone..Same markings, same length post? you know what I mean? You have to be very watchful of new manufactured smithing tools on ebay. I have personally seen several items such as these cones, green&mengal swage blocks and diamond brand rounding hammers sell for more than they can bought brand new just a few clicks away.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. K. Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I've seen people pay more for tools at "in person" auctions too. It pays to shop around & be aware of the prices of new & used tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illi Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Thanks for the replies everyone. If it is true that he's reselling, then he's making a lot of money. The one I linked above is already going for double the original seller's price. And then there's this one which went for ~$234: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-Mandrel-Cone-Hardy-W-1-Hardy-Shaft-Blacksmith-Anvil-Forge-NO-RESERVE-/190794071054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6c367c0e&nma=true&si=KtlGXGiqoIwEjtKfc%252Bm9PK9rWkI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 It sure looks a lot like this $80 cone from Kayne & Sons: https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/page.php?theLocation=/Resources/Product/Anvil_Tools_and_Swages/Anvil_Horn_Cone_large.xml/ I guess it does pay to shop around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Thanks Neil and Kyboy. The $234 cone is the one that Centaur used to sell. The base diameter is slightly larger but I found the angle was a little steep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Thanks for the replies everyone. If it is true that he's reselling, then he's making a lot of money. The one I linked above is already going for double the original seller's price. And then there's this one which went for ~$234: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-Mandrel-Cone-Hardy-W-1-Hardy-Shaft-Blacksmith-Anvil-Forge-NO-RESERVE-/190794071054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6c367c0e&nma=true&si=KtlGXGiqoIwEjtKfc%252Bm9PK9rWkI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 It sure looks a lot like this $80 cone from Kayne & Sons: https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/page.php?theLocation=/Resources/Product/Anvil_Tools_and_Swages/Anvil_Horn_Cone_large.xml/ I guess it does pay to shop around. That is exactly what I was talking about..Ive seen it several times...The same exact stuff that you can still buy brand new but selling for double or more than new price..I just dont understand it..I really,really dont.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illi Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 That is exactly what I was talking about..Ive seen it several times...The same exact stuff that you can still buy brand new but selling for double or more than new price..I just dont understand it..I really,really dont.. My theory is that people have this mindset that "ebay has deals". The see something on ebay and simply assume that it's going for less than they could buy direct elsewhere. That was much more true when there were fewer buyers (less of a market). Now that everyone is on ebay I think it is much more likely that multiple people are interested in the same item. The other possibility in this case is that people are bidding higher because the seller *thinks* the cones are made of steel not ductile iron. Talk about a good return on your investment though; more than double in a couple weeks. All you need to do is "shade" the truth by saying that you *think* it's made of steel rather than ductile iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I remember back in the mid late 90's that real good deals could be had from ebay all day long..Man, I got some steals from the bay back then..Only problem was that it was very easy to get ripped off on ebay back then too..No buyer protection at all at that time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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