Dave Hammer Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I've put a couple new videos up on YouTube about how to put lining in gas forges. More videos will be coming soon that cover cutting firebrick for the doors, making floors and where to buy the materials I use in the videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqaC1rcTdvk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4W-SV2GcOk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinto Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Great videos. Thank you for sharing. I keep checking my youtube subscription for the next one. How does the colloidal silica/zirconium silicate mixture compare to something like ITC-100? And how resistance to flux is it? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks for the positive comment. Sorry, I can't provide a meaningful comparison to ITC-100. I wouldn't "expect" flux to have a negative effect on the coating I applied in the "Super C" lining video, except for the mess it makes (not gonna test that on purpose), but I don't know for sure. In any case (unless your floor is thermal blanket) that coating should not be used on floors (which is where flux generally ends up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Smith Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 awsome video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricS Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Dave, thank you for the videos. Looks like you have a great shop. You pretty much cleared up any questions I had. Soon to be starting my super C build Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 I put two more videos up on YouTube associated with the Super C Propane forge... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721oGEY842Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2OwGWioZQ One more video should be coming (hopefully within the next week) about a free form forge... Then I'm done for a while (all video'ed out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinto Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks again for the effort you put into all of these videos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 These are excellent videos, and a great resource on gas forge building. Thank you for sharing with the blacksmith community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Very nice videos, I incorporated many of the design ideas and coating processes into the construction of my forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Dave, Could you tell me the purpose of the Colloidal silica and Zirconium mix before the refractory layer? I am inclined to just blindly follow your instructions, but it might be useful to know what good it does. Also continental clay suggested the sodium silicate as a binder for the Zirc. Silicate, and I would like to know if you think this would work. I havent had much luck finding the Colloidal silica, and it is hard to keep anything from freezing while it is being shipped to Montana. Thank you! Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinto Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 axner has colliodal silica for $29.75/gal. However, it has been backordered for a while for me. http://www.axner.com/rigidizer.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 itsme, on 05 Mar 2013 - 23:38, said:Dave, Could you tell me the purpose of the Colloidal silica and Zirconium mix before the refractory layer? I am inclined to just blindly follow your instructions, but it might be useful to know what good it does.Also continental clay suggested the sodium silicate as a binder for the Zirc. Silicate, and I would like to know if you think this would work. I havent had much luck finding the Colloidal silica, and it is hard to keep anything from freezing while it is being shipped to Montana. Thank you!Randy Randy... I have heard of some folks just using a mortar mix directly over thermal blanket. I don't know about comparative results. I learned about the multi-layered process from a professional glass worker who designs and makes glory holes. He has used the technique for decades with positive results. Most of his work has been with glass blowers. I don't know for sure, but my guess would be that the colloidal silica/zirconium silicate mix would bind better to the thermal blanket (or anything else) because it may "soak" in a little better and provide a more sure adhesion.. and the sandwich process makes a more durable structure. I'm told that the colloidal silica/zirconium silicate mix can also be used alone, although the result is not as strong a coating. My source told me he uses the mortar primarily to build a stronger structure. His book, "A Glass Blower's Companion" has a description of the process I have used. Keep in mind that.... even though I speak about a strong structure, it is only relative. You still have to be very careful putting items in the forge and taking items out of the forge. If you press against the lining, it is fairly easy to damage it. The advantage of these thin linings of refractory over thermal blanket is that the forge heats up much faster than a fully solid lining. I have not used the ridigizer from Axner, but if you buy colloidal silica from sources other than I've suggested, be sure it is not a diluted mix (as compared to my recommended sources). One product I have tested with is "InsTuff", which is colloidal silica and is sold as a thermal blanket rigidizer. It does work OK for a rigidizer (although I like the "thinned" colloidal silica I use better for that purpose), but it did not work well at all when I used it to make the colloidal silica/zirconium silicate mix. I suspect it is already thinned, and maybe more than 50%. Remember the mix is made with full strength colloidal silica (the brand I recommended). I don't know how to tell you to get exact comparisons between manufacturers. My source of information religiously uses brands he has used for many years. I searched for sources that would sell smaller quantities and asked enough questions (in some cases spoke to their research organizations) to have confidence the products were comparable. Although I couldn't get exact chemical comparisons, I was satisfied with the general comparisons. As far as using sodium silicate as a replacement for colloidal silica, I would not expect that sodium silicate would work as well under the high temperatures in a forge. Zirconium silicate is a powder that is held in suspension within the binder. Zirconium silicate does not disolve into the liquid. The difference would be the temperature at which the binder breaks down. Sodium silicate has a melting point (chrystallization probably) at a much lower temperature than colloidal silica (almost half). If your forge gets to a "too high" temp for sodium silicate, I would expect the surface to fail. Obviously, this can happen with either chemical, but colloidal silica tolerates much higher temperature. I expect those temperatures vary a bit between manufacturers. Another note... I use sodium silicate as "glue" to adhere thermal blanket to the forge body (and layer to layer). If you keep your forge at extremely high temperatures for long periods of time, and that heat radiates through the coating and thermal blanket to the forge body, the forge body can get hot enough to make that adhesion fail. For that reason, I have started recommending using the "staples" to hold thermal blanket in addition to using the sodium silicate. The "simple forge lining" video shows how I use high temp wire for this purpose.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aljeter Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 This is funny, I just watched your video on making the burner and came back to IFI and refreshed and seen this post. I will be getting all the supplied needed for the burner and forge shortly. Thanks for the videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thanks Dave, Spring will be here soon, and I will have some colloidal silica shipped. I really appreciate your help! Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford8nman Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 These are really good videos. Any reason why this dude was banned. Seems like some really good stuff to ban him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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