This is reguarding my almost completed ''Bulldoze Bender''. Now if I just had to make the motor go on and off I wouldn't be asking but my mind goes flop bot when it gets to this relay business. I can't take a chance on frying my new $200 solenoid valve so if there's anybody who can maybe doodle me up a diagram I would appreciate it muchly.......If you are just going to tell me to hire an electrician I don't want to hear it..... :) ......

 

Pic bdb2:  the yellow line is coming from the solenoid switch. orange/ red are one solenoid valve and white/black is the other. These are to be comanded by the pendant switch by black and white, thanks in advance....mb

 

Go ahead and fry it

Oh sorry you probably don't want to hear that either (But it is funny)

I am totally brain dead with electrical issues and usually get my brother to fry it instead

OH thats an easy one !  just take off the solenoid install a manual hand valve & youre there :D

And you DON'T need a Electritian :P

 

so are we helping yet  LOL      well someone had to do it  ;)

OH thats an easy one !  just take off the solenoid install a manual hand valve & youre there :D

And you DON'T need a Electritian :P

 

so are we helping yet  LOL      well someone had to do it  ;)

 

Electritian eh? I don't want one of those either...... :P

Bruce,  Not so difficult but we will need some more info.  What voltage is the solenoid and the motor since it looks like you are using the motor junction box for your connections.  If the valve is 120 volt and the motor is 220 volt you will need to have a power cord with 2 loads, 1 neutral, and 1 ground.  You will need to have a plug and receptical to match. 

 

The next question is that switch you have.  It looks like there are 3 wires, one black, one white, and one green.  That doesn't make sense to me since green is always ground. I will assume that they just used the green as the common.   Put an ohm meter on that switch and see it you get continuity between two of the wires when you press up and between two others when you push down.  One of the wires should be common to both.

 

Now I will assume that the valve is 120 and the motor is 220 and that the switch has a common and pressing the up connects to the black and pressing down connects to the white (or vica versa).

 

The moter is easy.  You need a 2 pole switch for the motor if it is 220 volts.   The loads in the power cord run through the switch to the motor.  You can take power for the valve on the closed side of the switch.

 

For the valve: One wire from each side of the valve is going to be attached to the neutral (the white wire from the power cord).  The common from the pendant switch will be attached to one of the loads from the power cord or closed side of the motor switch.  One of the other two wires from the switch will be attached to the other wire coming from each side of the valve.

 

If by chance you have a 220 volt valve that pendent switch will not work unless you use it to control a seperate power relay that will control the valve.

Ciladog has made excellent points.

 

For the switch it is useful to know: its voltage 120 or 220/240, and its maximum amperage rating

For the motor it is useful to know: whether it will accept both 120 and/or 220/240 wiring; and its amperage rating

The same for the solenoid; voltage and amperage ratings

 

You first need to identify each piece of the puzzle for their amperage and voltage ratings, that determines their compatibility between the electrical parts, and how they are wired.   120 and 220 use different switches and different wiring.  High amperage motors/devices need different switches than low amperage motors/devices. 

 

If in doubt, have an electrician wire it for you.  You are not going to save money if you burn up your equipment and/or hurt yourself.

 

Disclaimer: I am not an electrician and I do not pretend to be one.

Yeah, the devil is in the details......It's all 110....I was at the RMS Xmas party yesterday and my friend Scott Kretchner drew out a schematic in the back of a present box....I'll try to make better sense of it today if not I'll try to coax him over here with single malt......After the wiring is done of course.... :lol:.......Thanks

Yeah, the devil is in the details......It's all 110....I was at the RMS Xmas party yesterday and my friend Scott Kretchner drew out a schematic in the back of a present box....I'll try to make better sense of it today if not I'll try to coax him over here with single malt......After the wiring is done of course.... :lol:.......Thanks

 

Does it look like this?

CD, you're a Prince! Scott did his best with what we had (and I rekcon I's correct)but I think I'll go with yours....Reading hyroglyphics isn't my specality.....thanks  :)

CD, you're a Prince! Scott did his best with what we had (and I rekcon I's correct)but I think I'll go with yours....Reading hyroglyphics isn't my specality.....thanks  :)

Must have been after a few of those single malts.

I saw that switch at surpluscenter. http://www.surpluscenter.com/pages/Catalog285-152.pdf

It looks like it comes in a couple of different versions, I would double check with a meter between all the leads just to be sure you have what you think you do.

I saw that switch at surpluscenter. http://www.surpluscenter.com/pages/Catalog285-152.pdf

It looks like it comes in a couple of different versions, I would double check with a meter between all the leads just to be sure you have what you think you do.

That's where it came from. The tech guy at http://www.phoenixhyd.com/ said it was exactly the right one......but he wasn't worth a.......hoot after that. What puzzled me was the green dosn't go to ground on the pendant, it's a common line or neutral. CD's schematic brought it all to light.......I can follow directions, but when it comes to electricty I just can't write em sometimes.... :mellow:

Yeah, the green lead seems a little squirrelly. It even looks like it has a larger lug, as grounds often do.

I just don't want to see you smoke anything, and hope all goes well.

Yeah, the green lead seems a little squirrelly. It even looks like it has a larger lug, as grounds often do.

I just don't want to see you smoke anything, and hope all goes well.

Well, one thing is it makes sense and electrical circuts are very logical...... Maybe that's why I struggle with them so...... :wacko:

I saw that switch at surpluscenter. http://www.surpluscenter.com/pages/Catalog285-152.pdf

It looks like it comes in a couple of different versions, I would double check with a meter between all the leads just to be sure you have what you think you do.

You are right on DK, the bozo at Phoenix instructed me to buy a vhs 61 (single acting) and I need a 11-3244 (dbl acting) When I pushed 'up' one side of the valve opened and one light came on (like it should), when I pushed 'down' both lights came on and the solenoids growled....no bueno. It was only momentary so I don't think it's toasted but Mr tech at Phoenix is gonna hear from me in the AM...... :angry:

Hold on a moment. The description doesn't make sense to me for your application.

 

ITEM 11-3244

 

 

$29.99

• New dual pushbutton handheld remote.

Set up for use with power up/power down

double acting hydraulic units. Three wire

control with input connecting to both output

wires when “up” is pressed and input to only

one output wire when “down” is pressed.

 

Since both of those pendants use 18/3 wire (one white, one black, and one green) I can't see how this is going to work.  When you call Phoenix ask for a wiring diagram or send him the schematic I posted and ask if the pendant will work and how to wire it. 

 

It sounds like what you have and what you think you need will do the same thing.  When you press up, output to one wire and when you press down, the output is to both wires so the spool can't move because both solenoids are being energized.

 

Its possible that you don't have the common on the pendant correct.  The only way to know for sure is to put a meter on it and see what connects to what when the buttons are pressed.  If you don't have an ohm meter use a battery and a bulb from a flashlight.

Here's the deal with the pendant I have......When I connect my continutity tester to green and white It operates both U&D, when I connect black and green only U operates and D is dead as it should be.....

I believe the single acting pendant VHS-61 is for a car lift type pump which needs no power to lower a heavy car cause weight alone will do that.

The double acting 11-3244 states in the catalog it's for power up and down.

 I believe I got the wiring right so it has to be the pendant., but I'm gonna send the schematic to Phoenix to double check.....

Yep, the schematic is spot on and Surplus Center shipped the wrong pendant. SC has agreed to take the incorect one back even though I cut the wires from 20' to 8', Good folks... :) .....Now all I have to do is wait..... :(

Good to hear.  But what they have is not 18/3 wire.  What they have is 18/2 with a shelded ground.  I doubt that pendant could get UL lisiting using the ground as a conductor.  Its probably why its on surplus website. Whatever, if it works it works so let's just hope it works.  Made in China no doubt.

They sent me ANOTHER VHS-61.......

 

They sent me ANOTHER VHS-61.......

 

Time to make your own.

 

 

Flush 1 Off/1 Off 1 NO/1 NO Green/Red Up-Down 6748K38

47.03

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#momentary-push-button-pilot-switches/=kknpsn

   Hello. I'm new to pounding iron and I Forge Iron, but electrician has been my occupation my forty+ years. After reading what has been written as to what  you are trying to do, the information you have provided, the information from the Surplus web page, I'll put in my two cents worth. If I understand what has been written you have a 2 soleniod operated closed center hydraulic control operating with a power unit that runs off another seperate switch that has the unit run continuesly until it is switched off, but is not controlled by up/down buttons of the pendant that controls the hydraulic control.

   If  this information is correct, then neither of the Surplus pendant controls 11-3244 or 11-3255(VHS61) is the correct one according to their information. Surplus pendant control 11-2201, again from their information, appears to be the switch you need and the print that ciladog furnished eariler is accurate and will give the control you desire.

   All this being said, most likely any one of the pendants would work if you could open it and rewire the switches internally but with the way the internal connections of of some manufacturers are made(today some switch jumpers are welded instead of wired) , that might not be a viable option.Hope this helps and do some visual of your bender.

   Hello. I'm new to pounding iron and I Forge Iron, but electrician has been my occupation my forty+ years. After reading what has been written as to what  you are trying to do, the information you have provided, the information from the Surplus web page, I'll put in my two cents worth. If I understand what has been written you have a 2 soleniod operated closed center hydraulic control operating with a power unit that runs off another seperate switch that has the unit run continuesly until it is switched off, but is not controlled by up/down buttons of the pendant that controls the hydraulic control.

   If  this information is correct, then neither of the Surplus pendant controls 11-3244 or 11-3255(VHS61) is the correct one according to their information. Surplus pendant control 11-2201, again from their information, appears to be the switch you need and the print that ciladog furnished eariler is accurate and will give the control you desire.

   All this being said, most likely any one of the pendants would work if you could open it and rewire the switches internally but with the way the internal connections of of some manufacturers are made(today some switch jumpers are welded instead of wired) , that might not be a viable option.Hope this helps and do some visual of your bender.

Hi Ronip, welcome aboard. I made this into a kinda sub thread because it was a specific problem and I wanted imput from those not necessarily interested in the http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/20235-bulldoze-bender/ thread.