Guest Johnnie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I've just striped out the fire pot from a ceramic chip gas forge thats in the throws of being converted to solid fuel and think I might have a problem!! It wasn't untill the sun streamed its rays through the open forge door I noticed the place was full of dust from the white refactory insulation that I'd been chipping away at. What are the chances of this dust being asbestos?????? I think the forge is from around the 1980's. Was asbestos still in use then? If so how long have I got? LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakwoodironworks Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hopefully, you were wearing a dust mask ( and I don't know if that would be enough if asbestos is involved ) . I am always wary of messing with stuff that I don't know what it is. It doesn't hurt to be too careful. In the US, there are pretty strict regulations on asbestos removal. Don't know about France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Johnnie, To qualify my answers, I was a US Federally certified Asbestos Abatement supervisor for about 10 years. Answers: 1, Asbestos was still in use in the US until about the mid 80's when phaseout began. 2, A one time exposure to Asbestos, especially if you do not smoke has a pretty low risk of causing Asbestos related illness. 3, Asbestos related illness usually takes decades to develop. The above is based on the common forms of asbestos, There is one type that is far worse, and was seldom used. NO dust is good to breathe period. That includes weld fume, a form of dust. Now a little you did not ask about; 1. the asbestos that harms you is so small you can't see it. These dangerous particals are about 4 micro meters by 1 micrometer around and are hollow tubes with sharp ends. They float in the air and stay airborn for a very long time. When inhaled they stab into the small air sacks in the lungs and the lung tissue scars around the tube. The dust you saw will almost all be stopped by the bodies natural defenses, and never make it into your lungs. BUT where there is that kind of dust, there is also the dust you can't see. The way to remove the dust now in the area where the work was done involves wet removal. Put a spoon full of dish dertengent into 25 liters of water, and spray this gently on the floor and then mop up. Then spray gently on all horizontal surfaces and then wipe up with a damp rag. This keeps the dust from being stirred back into the air. Place any debris into a plastic bag and dispose. In the future, anytime one is disturbing refracory or fibre insulation that has been heated to high temp, use a gentle spray in the refractory first and keep spraying to hold the dust. A good HEPA rated filter respirator is also a good idea, and is also useful when grinding and welding to keep that dust from your lungs. To those who smoke, all of the studies find an increased risk from asbestos in smokers, as high as 5000 times more likely due to smokings effect of reducing the bodies natural defense against dust. Hope this helps. Ptree who worked for a Valve and Fitting and Boiler maker who used millions of tons of asbestos over their 121 year history. All of our own facility piping was asbestos lagged as well as the 4 big boilers in the powerhouse i ran for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I work as a Boilermaker by trade. Some of the older boilers and power plants still have tons of asbestos in them. Last fall I worked at a plant that was built in the 50s and it was hard to find insulation in the plant that was NOT asbestos related. Some of the newer plants don't really have that much but, in places still used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnnie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thanks for the replies guys. Ptree that was very imformative, thank you. No I wasn't wearing a dust mask, just not thinking I guess. Non smoker too. Tomorrow I will ring Flamefast and ask the question. Also my brother is a fire fighter in the UK and will sample it for me in his station to find out what it was. There is strict regulations on asbestos removal here in France too so better find out what it is first before I do anymore with it. As for the clean up, urgggg where to start. Thanks again guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 also remember even if it is not asbestos, the koawool and other fibers are still a problem to breath. wear a mask anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 A quick, not absolute test but is usually accurate is to take a small pinch of the suspect material, heat with a cigerrette lighter. If the material glows when fully heated, and then when cooled is about the same in look and strenght almost always Asbestos. And as I noted No dust is good to breath, NON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionicarm Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 As ptree's nemesis (an asbestos project and air monitor) I can affirm all that he said. Asbestos related diseases take 15 to 40 years to surface and usually requires prolonged exposure on a frequent basis to really foul you up...that being said, it's nothing to mess with. you only have 2 lungs and they have to last as long as the rest of you. A good mask is kind of like good eye protection-You don't always need it, but when you do, there's not a lot that can be substituted in...expect to pay a bit for a quality mask and keep extra filters on hand. You won't need them for most things, but if you're say, chipping off insulation.... Proper ventilation can almost never hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Bionicarm, Nemesis? Not:) I always worked well with the air monitors, and project designers. They had a job to do just as I did. I actually set up a system to blow the stem packing out of valves that had been on the shelf, using hydro-static water pressure, amended with detergent of course. Had to remove the packing from about 100,000 valves:) Most of the asbestos work at the plant was glovebag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionicarm Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Ptree, about half the project supervisors are good to work with up here...the other half are wonderful opportunities to practice patience. sounds like an interesting system if a bit tedious :) I haven't run into anyone trying to do anything like that...just hack it out and throw it away, real shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Bionicarm, when you have a huge inventory of new on the shelf valves, and the decision is made to not sell asbestos packed and gasketed valves something has to be done. Some of these valves had more value then a new cars so... I designed all of the hydro test equipment anyway, so it was almost the same type of equipment. With the system, a repack and regasket was a few dollars VS the cost of proper disposal of a new valve, and we had MANY :) The powerhouse with the 4 boilers, all built in the 30-40's with tons and tons of spray on asbestos, well they got left in place and a new power house built. I was glad when my division was sold and we built a new asbestos and PCB and lead free shop:) Actually got to work in the shop for 7 years before we were again sold and the production moved to India. Then into an early industrial age factory with asbestos-PCB's and lead:( Was there 3 years. Now again in a asbestos-PCB and Lead free shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnnie Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 And the good news is.......... spoke to Flamefast who manufactures these forges and told them I wanted to convert to coal but was concerned about the asbestos content. Nice fella said that Flamefast have never used asbestos on any of their products. Ever! Phew close escape and will most definatly take more care and think next time! Thanks for the comments, you guys make an interesting read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakwoodironworks Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Good news! Take care of yourself and that young future smith you are holding in you picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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