Holzkohle Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I scanned a number of threads on the 400 but could not find how to remove the fan. The fan shaft is threaded, fan is fixed in place with a key, appears not to be enough room to drive the key through and there is some free rotation of the fan on the shaft. Thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Perhaps the threads are left handed on that nut to remove the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holzkohle Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 TenHammers Right hand thread-nut and washer previously removed. The problem is how to remove the key. Was wrong about free rotation of the fan on the shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Is the fan held on with a thread? or is it fitted with a key? Threaded AND keyed is such an odd arrangement. Can you soak it in penetrating oil for a few days? Acetone and trans fluid has been mentioned, or any commercial product you prefer. I can tell you that close fitting surfaces need very little contamination or rust to bind tight. Been there on my lawn tractor a few months ago... Threading a nut on the end of the shaft so it is even with the shaft end, and using a soft hammer or a wood block can help with driving once it is wet with lubricant. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holzkohle Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 PK The shaft is threaded and the fan is keyed-approx 1/8"-key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I will still be surprised if the fan is threaded AND keyed. If I understand you properly, there is no obvious shoulder or end to the threads before they are covered by the fan. Is it obvious that the inside of the fan is also threaded, or is it more indeterminate? I also surmise the fan is broached, and the shaft is slotted even in the threaded area. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holzkohle Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 PK There is no shoulder. The threads run into the fan body. Cannot see under the fan to determine if the threads run all the way through. It may be unsual, but that's the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I had a C400 and it had a jamb nut that locked the fan. I sold it over 15 years ago and do not recall a key but I do remember it was easy to remove once the jamb nut was loosened. It also had a very fine thread which allowed proper positioning so it doesn't hit the fan case. IIRC, I removed the case front and was able to see the split nut. Worst case, you can probably get under the rear case once the mounting screws are loose and pull the bearing cap, which should allow you to pull the main shaft. That would allow you to look behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If you search thias site in this here solid fuel forum, you "should" locate my write-up on servicing this forge blower assy. There are also other sites that have some really good tip as well. Search them via the web. I have sepnt quite a bit of time with these blowers and have yet to see a fan that is keyed. That key way is to locate the tang on the washers. You likely will have to make a "special socket" to thread the fan off. Yes, the fan is threaded on to the shaft and you'll ned to turn it off. That special socket is just a 1/2" drive 1-1/16" size that is cut to fit snug onto the hub of the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utaholdiron Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If it's a Champion 400 blower, the "fan" is attached to the spiral gear. I would suggest putting a socket wrench on the other end of that same gear to prevent it from turning as you undo the blade assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holzkohle Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 SReynolds and Utaholdiron A belated thanks to both of you. Finally got back to the blower yesterday and removed the fan. There was a key in the slot and it is threaded. Any idea why the key is in the slot? Thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden H Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I dissassembled my 400. I took off the grease/oil cap at the end of the main shaft, put the longest ratchet on it possible and cranked down until I pulled the whole bottom worm gear out. I loosened the gears up, took the nut of the shaft exposing the bearing, and twisted it through. If I recall correctly, there should be either a hex key or screw infront of or behind the blade with a weight/ spot on it. It may be different depending on when it was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The fan on my Champion 400 is threaded and held in place with a jam nut. The key-way is for a keyed washer that fits between the fan and the jam nut. I generally just hold the large gear with a blade screw driver in the teeth, to hold the shaft still to remove, and replace, the nut, washer, and fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentwerner Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 So I've read 400 disassembly/overhaul topics in depth and thought I had a pretty good grasp before I started disassembling of mine. I took Hayden H's idea of removing the rear bearing cap and putting a socket on the jam nut of the fan and the nut on the back. The rear nut came out and I got the bearings out and thought the fan shaft would slide out the front. No go... Looks like there is a nut holding the shaft in. So now I'm back to trying to get the jam nut and the fan off while everything is still assembled. Anybody got any good ideas on this? Don't feel comfortable jamming the gears because I know how soft the brass gear is and the fan doesn't feel like it will hold as much pressure is needed to break the jam nut loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Right. You are totally correct. It will NOT pull out untill you take the front set of bearings apart. You said that you had read the tips? I explained exactly how to go about this, in detail. You wil have to remove that nut from the fan, and then the backing nut, them that dust cover/bearing cover and another set of nuts and bearing cones. You will have to make a socket from a shallow well 1 1/16 -1/2 drive. A 6 point will be best. I cut 6 equally spaced notches in the sides. They are 3/8 inch wide notches and 5/8 in. deep. I used a die grinder, free-hand to cut. It don't have to be machine shop exact. if you cannot do this have a buddy make you one or buy the socket and take it to the machine shop. That will cost 100.00 an hour so.......................55 bucks most likley. That socket as you have already read in my write-up contacts the HUB of the fan. The HUB. Where it is beefy. I hit it with the impact and it instantly spins the fan a bit. Don't go overboard here. Stop. Reoil the fan shaft threads and turn it off by hand. It really IS that simple. The threads have to be clean before hand. Oiled etc. If this thing is total rust, then you must take percausions for that. Heat perhaps. OIl it for some days with WD or what-ever. I hate to read about screw driver jammed in the gears and broken/stripped gear teeth. It isn't needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentwerner Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 SReynolds, I did get things out just fine. Made me a little spanner tool that fit around my socket and held the fan. Worked perfectly. The rear and front bearings where pretty pitted so I replaced them with some from a bicycle shop. Got it all back together, just finishing up tuning the bearings. Now that it's back together it seems stiff. I've played with the tension to free it up and the bearings started coming out. I tightened things up enough the bearings stay in but the shaft still has some slack. My questions, I have the bearing caps off, everything snugged and the fan on. Will the tension be different if the caps aren't on and lubed? Will it be quieter with the case all put back together? And are all the caps greased before final install and then just a few drops of lube (ATF) added each time of use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You are asking about bottom shaft only? That is the one in question? I have never had to change bearings, but it is done. If it is a bit loose then it is dead-on. Too snug and it won't operate correctly. We tend to think in terms of tapered rollers. One at each end of a shaft with anything from preload to as much as .001 end thrust. That won't happen on this. This is totally different engineering. You will want to tighten that REAR set to eliminate the end thrust to the point the shaft turns free. Any binding at all and you have it too tight or there is a bearing problem or dirt etc causing the bind. NO grease. Just light oil. Hydraulic fluid/ATF or 20 weight engine lube is just right. There will be some noise, but it shouldn't growl too loudly. The bearing covers won't eliminate any noise but that top case cover likley will. Hope this helps................ Yes, the oil will run out from the front bearing set. IT may seep a bit around that rear cap/cover too. They don't require a fill of oil Rather just a film. Turn the crank and add oil at the same time. That splashes it around in there for the upper bearings. The lower set of bearings see the most oil as it should. It turns the fastest and is at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentwerner Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 So there is no need for grease at all? I thought I read somewhere that someone was packing the caps and then letting the squirt keep everything lubed after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 No. I do smear a light coat of grease on the threads of them thread-in caps and a bit on the inside of the cap simply to prevent any rust. Just as a precaution. Most have experimented with all sorts of grease and oils as well as myself. I greased one up pretty well and had taken it back apart at a later date. The oils washed out the grease anyway. I have tried gear oil to diesel fuel and what works best is simply to assemble with engine oil (you know, like 15w-40 or 10w-30 etc.) and keep her lubed with a light oil. I like ATF and or hyd.system oil. Packing them caps with grease and not on the bearings won't hurt anything. I don't know what the advantage would be outside of what I explained with a light grease film. I hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentwerner Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Hey thanks for advice. I got it back together and ended up just cleaning it all out real well and then giving it a liberal amount of oil on final install. Things turned out real well. Bout to make a new topic on my smithy setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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