Wesley Chambers Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Picked this one up last night $1.60 a lb, Glad as I am to have it I'm VERY upset at being told flat out lies from Kady Lynn Auctions in Bloomington In. I talked with the auctioneer over the phone where I was told that him and a friend put it on a scale and it was around 350# "because the scale was only rated for 280 and it was over that!" After the 3.5 hour car ride from Ky I can tell from the moment I walk in its smaller than my 340# Trent, when I bring this up to the man during the auction he boldly states "Its not about how much it weighs!" flabbergasted I wanted to offer 50 cents a pound and see if he still thought so! Anyway, sorry for the rant but please take this buyer beware for that auction company, a few pounds here and there sure but to tell me 100lbs different? Thought it was neat to see it was used by a lefty by the dressings on her though why they chopped the heck out of the feet Ill never know, part of my serial was removed as well but any info from what you can read would be great, thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 That's a nice looking anvil Wesley! Are you sure it's a HB? It appears to have a cast base (like Trentons and Arm and Hammers). Since the serial number is on the left side of the foot, is it possible that it's an A&H? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ya know I'm not sure, I was guessing buy the depression and serial but its in that trifecta toss up ya know? The only A&H's I have laid hands on have been smaller, marked and shaped a bit different, this shape more resembles my Trenton but the double oval not quite hourglass threw me~ Open to wisdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 According to AIA, the underside of the heels of A&H anvils tended to be left quite rough due to the fullering process of drawing out the heel. I think they made anvils up to the 500 pound range. To my eye, yours looks more like a Trenton/A&H than an HB (but since they were forged, that doesn't mean much as the shapes can vary...). A&H anvils were apparently made by a guy who broke away from Trenton, which is probably the main reason why their shape and construction were fairly similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Brilliant! From this pic looks like Ill edit this post to A&H instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Very cool Wesley. I will look up the sn 36905 tonight in my copy of AIA unless someone beats me to it. Once again, congrats on a beautiful anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hey thanks again man glad to have it, I gotta get that dang book! I think Ill make some hints to the wife ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yup that heel shot nails it down as an A&H; one of the truly great American traditional anvil makes and in great shape; well worth US$1.60 a pound (pretty much a bragging price these days!). As for auctioneers; yup, the truth tends to not be in them when they are extolling the stuff they are selling. If you are upset you might file a complaint with the local to them Better Business Bureau and mention the gas and time you spent to get there only to find that they had misrepresented it---they told you it went over 280 on their scale and it was only 250 (make sure you have a good weight on that from a certified scale---say at a feed store!) You might also contact the state office of weights and measures and tell them that these folks were using bad scales as you were told it was over 280 pounds and yet when checked with certified scales it read only XYZ. Yes a 350# anvil would have been nice---but that one's sure nice as it stands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yep! Pretty common for blacksmiths who do a lot of paving breaker bit sharpening to "prove" the temper to the customer by jamming the bit into the side of the anvil. Customer rarely knows that the body of the anvil is soft. I was taught to do that forty years ago in the shop I apprenticed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yep! Pretty common for blacksmiths who do a lot of paving breaker bit sharpening to "prove" the temper to the customer by jamming the bit into the side of the anvil. Customer rarely knows that the body of the anvil is soft. I was taught to do that forty years ago in the shop I apprenticed in. I get that much Grant but dang why ya gotta cut her toes off!!! thats too far :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Wesley, the serial number of 39605 is kind of in a void in the A&H records provided in Anvils in America. 38911 was made in 1922-23 and 43252 was made in 1935. There are no records of the serial numbers between those 2 numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well thanks for the look-up I know more now than I did yesterday and thats a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 You can't make blanket statements about auctioneers any more than you can any other trade! I've cried sale since the 1970's. If I personally make a mistake on ANY item, I buy it back if that's what the customer would like. Simple as that.Lots of satisfied customers over the years with Sprado Realty and Auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Mr. Sprado, I have never met you, so I can honestly say that I don't think I have ever met an honest auctioneer. Auctioneers, used car salesmen, lawyers, politicians, etc...90% give the other 10% a bad name. I have learned the hard way that most of what goes on at estate auctions around here is misrepresentation, either "puffery" or outright fraud. I have gone to many auctions only to walk out without making a bid, or leaving in the first half hour. The good stuff has already gone to an antique dealer, or been picked over by the family, and only the dregs are left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Arm & Hammer anvils have a depressed oval under the base according to Mr Postman pg 271 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sorry if I have somehow offended you personally Eric but I don't think I made any blanket statement. I was very clear about this particular company and listed the name for that very reason. I understand people make mistakes but I took my problem to gentleman about the misrepresentation of the item before it came up for auction and not only did he deny the statements he made over the phone with me but continued to lie about the weight till he finally made the remark that "the weight of this item doesn't matter anyway" Again my intent was never to blemish your reputation or any other honest sales person, simply a buyer beware for this particular group. If anyone from that group is offended I suggest they buy a new scale and use it the next time they get an anvil, or better yet do as most other auctions do, if you don't know the weight just put "large" anvil then its my own fault for diving seven hours round trip. At this auction there were a few new-to-blacksmithing bidders, myself and Tony DeCaro (another blacksmith on these forums) came with me and had been chatting with them all day about some of the hammers that were up for auction and prices for some tools and the like trying to lend them a bit of advice from experience over the rumors they had been gathering. The big issue we were up against with this false weight of the anvil ( that they used a scale on..) was these poor guys that hear "buy the biggest anvil you can!" and "only pay xxx per lb!" So when they think hey! here is this 350# anvil I can pay up to 700 and still be at $2/# Great deal! it bothered us quite a bit when we know you can find a much better deal with a little time, much less a better anvil to learn your hammer control on... I know if I were to have purchased this anvil ten years ago and beat the face right off of it with missed blows, I would be kicking myself today for not just spending $60 at harbor freight to learn on the VW of anvils before I wrecked my Cadillac. I dunno man just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I completely understand your aggrevation man. Weight has almost everything to do with price in anvils.Thats like selling you a 2011' model truck but when you get there its a 2006 model..I cant remember how many times Ive went to look at a "300 pound" anvil and it end up being 125 pounds.Even our 205 Fisher was suppose to weigh 360 pounds but I still bought it because of the good deal..Big anvils are at a premium here in Kentucky and hard to find. Even up in your more populated area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Eric you notice how I said "tends to not be" instead of "is not". It wasn't a complete blanket statement; I left an out for the black swans. However with 40+ years of going to auctions in a bunch of different states in different parts of the USA I have yet to meet an auctioneer as upstanding as you and have met many a one claiming something to be a rare unique antique when it's under 5 years old and mass produced in Mexico! There was one in Ohio I stopped going to as items that sold cheap in the earlier part of the auction tended to show back up for sale later in the day when the "fever" was higher. As it seemed that smithing stuff was often last in the day I got time to see this happen again and again and grew to know his "shills" from auction to auction. I also never believed a description either on a listing or over a phone: "Heavy or large anvils" were often under 100 pounds. I did work out a method to filter auctions on: I would ask how many people it took to lift the anvil to the selling platform---1 = = light anvil, 2 = = light to medium (150# tops), Forklift/tractor/crane = = attend auction! Never heard an Auctioneer say "Now these were sold by the thousands from the Sears & Roebuck catalog back in the early 20th century and you can still see a lot of them around. They were the cheaper quality level too!" even if it's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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