what should i look for when buying my 1st anvil?

[jeffmckelvey]

i'm meeting an old guy around the corner from me with an anvil for sale.. i'm expecting it will be real old, what should i look for to know whether it is good or not? like brand names, condition, or weight?

thanks -jeff

[Sam Salvati]

A nice flat clean face, no pits or chips from the corners, HAS the horn and heel, though a nice anvil can still be had if they are broken off. There is tons of names, a few off the top of my head are Peter Wright, Trenton, Kolmswa, Hay Budden, among MANY others. Another good thing is rebound, bring a small ball peen hammer, and holding it peen end edown let it lightly fall on the face of the anvil, if it bounces back, it has good rebound. Ring is not a tell of a good anvil or not, it is really personal preference, but remember, if you have to wear ear plugs when hammering, or not. Look it over for cracks or any OBVIOUS flaws, if it all looks Kosher go for it, and please post pictures!

[Glenn]

Good anvil ??

I would look at the beast and see if it had any markings. They could tell you the manufacture (Peter Wright, Hey-Budden etc). But usable anvils do not have to have names, or names you recognize.

The weight that may be in "code" , the english hunderd weights, and stamped into the anvil. First number is x 112, second number x 28, and third an acutal number. 123 would be 112 + (28 + 28) + 3 = 171

The anvil may be many years old, and may have been used hard or not at all. The condition of the face and edges will reflect the past usage. The face may also be worn making a gap under straight edge laid horn to heel. A gap is not always bad, but reflects usage.

Rather than using a ball pein hammer, use a heavy ball bearing and a clear plastic tube. You will have better control and can see the actual rebound without outside influences. Rebound alone does not declare an anvil good or bad.

DO lightly tap the entire anvil with a hammer. It should NOT have any one place or local area where it goes THUD.

Look at the anvil and it's value to YOU. If you have NO anvil, and this beast has all the faults possible, consider the price. A guide line price for a anvil has been reported to be somewhere near $2.00 per pound as a starting point, better anvils can go for more, poorer anvils go for less. That said Thomas Powers can find anvils at super low prices where ever he is located. There was a 100+ pound anvil purchased in Florida for $20 just recently.

We can provide you much better advice if you can provide photographs. But if the fellow wants to sell the anvil, you may loose out while going this route. Cash talks real fast.

The deal is what is acceptable to you and your need and a reasonable reimbursement for the item to the seller.

If others have guide lines on this subject please post them and we can assemble them into a FAQ.

[jeffmckelvey]

thanks for the tips. i'll let you guys know how i make out tomorrow.

-jeff

[ThomasPowers]

*FACE* as the hoof is the horse, the face is the anvil. Look to see how *thick* the face is. (you can generally tell where the hardened face changes to the soft body though on cast steel anvils like Columbian this is not visible---warning some cheap cast iron ASO's are cast to look like they have a face plate when they do not!)

If the face is thick enough you can get away with a lot of dressing it to look pretty. If the face is thin---well that's like buying bald tires for your car... You would like the face smooth; but minor pitting from rust will wear smooth with use. Major pitting or *ANVIL* *ABUSE* like using a chisel on the face may require fixing and should drop the price substantially. However the entire face doesn't have to be good to be a good anvil: if there is a flat/smooth area over the mass of the anvil you are golden, abuse toward the horn or heel is less impacting for general use.

Edges do not need to be sharp. I'd rather have an anvil with rounded edges than one that was sharp edged but had 1/4" less face thickness. Most traditional texts talk of rounding the edges *on* *purpose* to avoid nicking the work---this can be done in a variety of radii to make it a useful tool as well.

Ring: there is at least one good brand of anvil with no ring---the Fisher; great to have around the shop, doesn't annoy the neighbors; a great anvil to use---but not so good for demos where the ring of the anvil helps draw folk in... (The vulcan is a non-ringing anvil but not as high a quality as Fisher)

An anvil that *should* ring but doesn't is a very strong warning---even worse if it "buzzes" this indicates that the face is delaminating from the body-- no fix worth the cost! Also look for cracks around the hardy hole and the horn-body or heel-body junction.

Style is a personal thing however anvils with long tapering horns and heels are louder ringers and more "bouncy". Short squat anvils put more mass under the hammer where it helps do the work---exp Moushole anvils are "squat" and a good english brand.

It's good to learn the more common brands and if they will be marked in CWT or in pounds---you can sometimes get a deal if the seller thinks 1.1.1 means 111# when it's really 141# OTOH if the seller thinks that 111# is really 141# then you are being cheated.

(Note: most folks cannot accurately tell the size of an anvil; "Heavy" or "Large" has been used to describe anvils anywhere from 75# to 500# in my personal experience. Better to ask "how many people did it take to move it?" And if they laugh and say they used a hoist/tractor/forklift/etc then you are sometimes talking "heavy")

Size: a typical size for a "shop" anvil is around 150# and up depending on what you plan to do in the shop. Heavier anvils can be used with heavier hammers, strikers, more tooling, etc. Also a heavier anvil does more "work". Every hammer blow spends some of it's energy moving the anvil the larger and more soundly mounted the anvil is the more energy that goes into deforning the metal and not moving the anvil.

However if you are just starting out you may not have a dedicated shop; or you may be doing a lot of "on the road" demo's. In that case an anvil that is easy to move is a *good* *idea*! (Generally I would go for one between 75# for light work and 125# if you can pick that up and carry it *easily*---don't mess up your back when you're young trying to show off how tough you are...you will regret it later. Also look into a good yet fairly light stand or "Portable Stump" for it.

Abused anvils: if you find an anvil that has been abused it *may* be a great deal. Typical usable abused anvil may have the horn or heel broken off; but if the *face* is in good condition. These are a usable anvils---and often very cheap---I've seen them for less than 50 cents a pound. You can then make a horn or hardy analog to be mounted to the stump or held in the post vise.

Remember that most of the world doe not use the "London pattern" anvil and it dates only to the beginning of the 19th century at that so all the patternwelded viking and japanese swords were forged on anvils that do not look like an "anvil" to most people.

And finally: Cast Iron does not make an anvil! They are at best "Anvil Shaped Objects"---ASO's and for the same price as an ASO you can usually buy a hunk of steel at the scrap yard that will be a bigger better anvil.

Remember that most people don't know the difference between cast iron, wrought iron, steel, etc. Some may misrepresent their offerings through ignorace ; but others will do it to try to cheat you. Caveat Emptor!