Kinives From Files Advice

[primtechsmith]

I am in no way a knife maker, and have never attempted one before. But I have seen and read a lot on knives made from files. I have a few relatives who I think would love a simple knife for Christmas. And I would really like the experience to try it.

Can you guys give me anything to keep in mind when I begin this project? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Peyton

[jimmy seale]

Hey PTS-just what i have gatherd-you need old files- the new ones are made diffrent,i think only the surface/ teeth are hard-middle is soft.I could be wrong on this though. jimmy

[oljoe]

Peyton,
I read that Nicholson files are made from 1095 high carbon steel. Most of the cheaper files are surface hardened and will not make a good knife. Look for an old Nicholson file with a diamond stamped on it.
Another thing that you may consider is to use an old truck leaf spring. Most are made from 5160 and make very good knives.
A disclaimer must be made about this information however. Using recycled steel is not really cost effective considering the labor that it takes to make a knife.

[Nick]

Make sure you've got the teeth gound off completely, or it could very well cold shunt on you.

[son_of_bluegrass]

I've made a couple, just playing around. First thing, I've yet to use a file that worked exactly like 1095 but they are close if you get a high carbon one not a case hardened one. (high carbon some other alloying elements). They tend to be cold short and will crack if worked below a bright red (estimate 1500 F).

I anneal first and remove the teeth but have seen some with the teeth left intact for appearance and the folks who had them didn't report problems with cold shuts or cracking. YMMV

As to the heat treat, I've found they require a bit longer soak (about 1 minute) than 1095 at about the same temperature (1450-1500 F).

They also tend to be more wear resistant than 1095.

ron

[Mr Smith]

Sam - It won't necessarily *cause* cracking by itself, but it'll give it somewhere to crack along. Sorta like the perforations in a cracker-type biscuit.

[backyardsmith]

you could always try putting a corner of the file in a vise and see if the corner will snap off and ive use the newer Nicholson files and there still all hc( good way to beef up a billet)

[son_of_bluegrass]

Ahh ok, so proper procedure would be key? Can you leave the serrations and stuff? I think it would look awesome to leave them as the back of the blade, and then the edge bevel would be all smooth and stuff.

I've seen some done that way. If I was to do that, I'd create the rough bevel with a hammer leaving it thicker than usual. Then file or grind the bevel being careful to remove the remains of the teeth on the bevel and do an edge quench or clay coat the remaining teeth so they stayed soft.

And yes by soak, I mean to leave the file in the fire at temperature some time (for files it seemt to be at least 30 seconds maybe a full minute) before quenching.

A full anneal will result in a softer and thus easier to rough file/grind than normalizing. You can normalize if you want.

ron

[Don A]

First off, before you get bogged down in the age and name brand of used files, do a little research and experimentation with spark testing, and you can eliminate the undesirables pretty quickly. But yeah... you can't go wrong with old Black Diamonds.

Also, remember the old blacksmith's addage concerning knives...

"If a blade you hope to win; forge it thick and grind it thin."

More accomplished bladesmiths are going to be better at "forging to shape" and doing minimal stock removal to finish the blade. They are going to hammer their bevels out to an almost finished edge.

Us rookies are often better off to to forge the profile, establish the bevels, then leave plenty of beef for the grinder (or file, as the case may be). Especially with the old files; this allows you to file or grind all the remnant of the teeth. Make sure no sign of the teeth remain before you harden the blade. The teeth marks can be cracks waiting to happen when you quench the blade.

[Woody]

Sam: I would highly recommend that you anneal any file before hammering on them. Some have a tendency to shatter if not annealed first. Nothing like a workshop full of red hot shrapnel to get your attention.

Woody

[Ron Hicks]

I pounded out a few knives from files.
I have only used the new Nicholson files - they get hard and with tempering will make a good knife .
The files are thin to begin with , its easy to get carried away with forging and getting to thin.
I havent ever ground or anealed the file before forging but thats me.
If you watch what you are doin you can remove the file teeth after forging when you clean it up.

[bipolarandy]

talkin about knives from files.
Does any body know the actual alloy of any of these old files, like Black Diamonds or Nicholsons. I'v heard alot that they are close to 1095 and W1, but i'd like to know how much carbon is really in em.

-Andrei

[oljoe]

Using any recycled steel is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you

[Ron Hicks]

I havent ever ground or anealed the file before forging but thats me.

Not sure how you do it but when Im finished forging I Normalize & sometimes I let it slow cool beside the fire in ash but not very often most of the time its soft enough to work.
Talkin grinding belts/discs I dont usem- I use a sen ,file, sandstone all hand work .
You can aneal its OK -
This is a blade I made from a file I tempered it the old way (my first time tempering this way) . did not get a very even color



Ron