Fuller marks(?) on corners of old tools.

[Frank Turley]

I just wondered if y'all wondered why the little semi-circular indentations were placed on the four corners of some smithing top tools, business end side, and sledge hammers, peen side. I even have a European splitting maul with the marks near the poll. They were put on both manufactured and hand forged tools. In a painting from 1826, "Pat Lyon at the Forge," there is a sledge hammer shown with the fuller marks, so it dates way back.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Tools

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Hey Frank! Seems like they must have had a reason. I've wondered about it, but never reached a good conclusion. Had thoughts about how it might come about because they welded the faces on or how it would affect the heat flow in one-shot heat-treating. Seems like an affectation, doesn't it?

OBTW: Jack Slack had a stroke last February. Still thinking and speaking well, but little use of his left side. Pretty much house-bound.

[fciron]

Um, you two are the guys I look to for answers.

I thought it might be so they could tell the actual tools from "random hunks of metal on the ends of sticks". I have a piece of pipe with one end forged square, it's a handle for several different things, so I wrote "Ceci n'est pas un pipe." on it. It's seems that there are a lot of tools that look like scrap metal to the uninformed.

[maddog]

I notice Schwarzkopf requires them on the business end of the set hammer p. 162. He doesnt give any reason.

[Frank Turley]

Thank you guys, but keep those cards and letters comin'. The recognition thing sounds plausible, but so does the affectation idea. I mentioned the fuller marks to my journeyman helper/striker who spent five years forging in Germany, and he said, "Eye candy!" In terms of eye candy (my farrier mentor called it eye wash), that projecting lug-like 'ear' on an old well made leg vise was probably to keep filings out of the works. However, there is one on the fixed leg jaw as well as the movable leg jaw. The fixed one serves not any function that I see, except to balance the design.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

[ThomasPowers]

In set tools I could see where they would be a good place to make a rod handle for it if you didn't want to use a wooden one---but that doesn't work for things like hammers. Maybe like tail fins on cars...

[son_of_bluegrass]

I'm still wondering how it changes the way the force of the blow propagates through the tool. It may change how the force is transmitted making for a more efficient hit. Any engineers who want to test that?

ron

[Timothy Miller]

My personal theory is that when the eye is punched not slit and drifted an most do these days there is swelling around the eye. This makes this portion larger than the rest of the tool. Now you have a bulging eye and it sort of sags back in to the profile of the bar. A lot of tools are tapered before and after the eye. A smith with an artistic bent would want this taper to be even from the eye to the struck end or face. but there is not really enough metal to fill this out sometimes with nice crisp square corners. You end up with a dip behind the eye looks kind of sloppy and is sort of a lazy form. So what do you do you fuller in on that dip and drive material up into the corners of the bar fill out that dip behind and in front of the fuller mark. I think people liked this detail and it spread as a convention even when it was not needed where people were making there hammers by different methods.

[Reinier]

About a year ago I made a sethammer out of tool steel. Just straightforward piece, no fuller grooves. The hardeningprocess went well as on all my other tools. But in use (a couple of weeks) the corners cracked. First I thought about the hardeningprocess, maybe the corners were too hard. Tried it another time same way, a little less heat for quenching than the first time and a little stronger temper. The corners still cracked like the first time in a few weeks. My old set hammer, having these fuller grooves, never cracked in any way. So I tried making the set hammer with these fuller grooves approx. 1cm from the bussiness end. It still works fine never had any problems with it. Now I don't know how the fuller grooves influence the hammer. I can think of several possible explanations. First the force of the blow of the sledge is directed more to the center of the hammer sparing the corners. Second, the corners can lose the energy exerted on them by bending upwards slightly (if the steel is hardened properly). Third and last is that it is all in my mind or even good luck.

Please feel free to criticize my post and/or findings.
Best wishes, Reinier

[maddog]

I was just thinking about this. When the tool is struck the cheeks of the eye bulge and the stress is concentrated where the eye joins the body and in particular on the outside corner. Fullering a dent at that point will spread the stress over a larger area. But then I thought, "nah... I've never heard of that kind of a failure." :)

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I'd go with door number three! Kinda like the guy who was having trouble forge welding. One day after re-arranging his shop layout, he tried a weld and it came out perfect. After that he never tried welding except with the bar pointed North like his new layout dictated..We always try to find a cause and effect.

[Timothy Miller]

On many tools the fuller is behind the eye not in front.

[Reinier]

Thanks for putting my feet back on the ground guys! I like the way Grant puts it, it's all in the mind. Most important thing for me is now that it works fine this way.

cheers, reinier

[knots]

Maybe these fullered corners have practical origins based on limitations of the materials used to make ancient blacksmithing tools.. Consider that steel was a precious commodity until the mid eighteen hundreds when the Bessemer process was patented and it becomes clear that the common material used by blacksmiths for their tools was unlikely to have been, exclusively, steel before that time. They probably used the equivalent of wrought iron for hammers, set hammers, and general tooling. If that was the case then reforging their tools would have been needed as an ongoing maintenance chore. In the case of wrought iron set hammers the set face corners would have likely deformed in a way that the fullered corners would have corrected.

It would be interesting to find some tools of this era and test this theory.

[Mainely,Bob]

Those fullered areas serve the same type of function as the nib on a handsaw.
They are put there to make people ask why. :rolleyes:

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Those fullered areas serve the same type of function as the nib on a handsaw.
They are put there to make people ask why.

I always wondered what that was for..................and I still do. Thanks mainly to Bob.

[ThomasPowers]

I have some old steeled WI tools---all the mushrooming seems to happen at the struck end of the tool and no signs of it lower down below the eye.

[bruce wilcock]

when forging shafted top tools ,we always got the fuller in first , to set the job out then the eye ,the fullering let us get a good hold both end on as the tongs were fitted to regester into the fullering and to handle the job upright under the hammer with round section pickup tongs whilst forging top swages ,all shafted tools that will have to go in the fire to be dressed should have a good fuller for tong handling stonemasons hammers shipyard drifts and setts, can be the devil to hold without when they have got worn well down,and you cant get eye tongs on .

[Frank Turley]

when forging shafted top tools ,we always got the fuller in first , to set the job out then the eye ,the fullering let us get a good hold both end on as the tongs were fitted to regester into the fullering and to handle the job upright under the hammer with round section pickup tongs whilst forging top swages ,all shafted tools that will have to go in the fire to be dressed should have a good fuller for tong handling stonemasons hammers shipyard drifts and setts, can be the devil to hold without when they have got worn well down,and you cant get eye tongs on .

Bruce,
¡You're the Man! Thank you. Now I can rework my tongs when I begin work on those types of tools.

[fciron]

I am shocked, shocked to discover there is a reasonable explanation for this. Is nothing sacred?