ANTIQUE IRON WORK

[Antiqueman]

Hello, I am a collector of antique iron-lighting, cooking items, tools, household items. Viewing iron to come to a conclusion of old vs new, domestive vs foreign requires knowledge of use and method of making the item as well as making the stock from which it was made. I am looking for help in understanding the processes and how to determine old from new and antique from new. Thanks

Antiqueman

[monstermetal]

Interesting collection in your photo.. I dont know that I can tell you much though... Just about everything could be made just as it was 100-200-300 or even 500 years ago... If it was important enough you could find or make appropriate material and use methods to match...

[Thomas Dean]

That's true, Larry. We can duplicte just about anything that has been made before. Example:
Last summer I was asked to make some tools dating to the 1st Century A.D. that were to be props for a movie that was shot near here. The movie director had hired a Jewish archioligist to insure everything was being done period accurate. When delivered to the site, the movie director and art director were so impressed with the detail they called the archioligist over and he said, "This, (holding one of the tools) is an EXACT replica of what was taken from King Tut's tomb." He also told them that he was taking all the tools I made plus a couple of the wooden stools that I helped make, back to Israel with him and was placing all of the pieces in a museumn. I was excited to say the least. My point tho is that you can duplicate iron work. BTW, I used my 135# air hammer to make parts of the tools. They didn't do that back then! (Dummy me! I only have a couple of pictures of one of the items I made... We are trying to get the archioligist from Israel to send me some pictures of my work along with what museumn they are in.)

[southernforge]

As with any other category of antique, to identify age and authenticity requires an educated mind and an educated eye. Certain characteristics/shortcuts/sloppiness of how iron reproductions were made during the Arts and Crafts period will indicate some items that were possibly or likely made during that period. Higher levels of carbon are more prevalent on items made after the 1970s when the availability of puddled wrought iron became very limited. The amount and thickness of iron also helps rule out certain time periods, as the amount and thickness of iron tended to be reflected by the cost and rarity of iron in the time and location of its making. Colonial period iron was expensive and used sparingly. The overabundance of wide and thick iron used in an item is more likely positively correlated with the later in time that an item was produced. The heavy use of iron in an object combined with design elements and/or function not usually associated with a time period would strongly indicate for someone to look for evidence of possible manufacture during the Arts and Crafts Period or even later.

Some items can have time periods ruled out, and some items can have probable time periods identified, but a modern smith can reforge old recycled period iron using period correct techniques and apply physical details that are likely to fool experts.

In my humble opinion a number of items in your photograph either are made of significantly heavy iron or have design elements that I have never seen in reference books.

[John B]

As has already been said, items are difficult to actually date, hands on is the best way to start to identify possible age.

Whereabouts are you located? Talking with a local knowledgable 'smith would help, or invite one to your studio/shop

Many books exist on historical ironwork with many pictures and references to different styles and periods.

Observations of metal joining methods, types of ends on scrollwork etc, style of workpiece, screws or bolts and their threads, wrought iron forgings have sometimes different configurations to steel forgings due to grain structure, although steel can be forged to simulate wrought iron making non destructive testing difficult.

Even 'experts' can be fooled so don't expect it to be easy.

[Antiqueman]

Interesting collection in your photo.. I dont know that I can tell you much though... Just about everything could be made just as it was 100-200-300 or even 500 years ago... If it was important enough you could find or make appropriate material and use methods to match...

What we can find is that many of the repros are electric welded. Telling the difference beween electric welding and forge welding is not always easy. Real old iron that has seen a lot of heat(fireplace cooking)over the years will often show stiration. New items made with old methods, or items made in the middle East or Africa for actual use in recent years are much more difficult (some fat or oil lamps)to know if it is made for export or is old or was made by little kids with a punch and hammer. I am looking for those in the business to suggest fine details to look for. Those that copy/make old objects with iron stock purchased today and don't go to the trouble of beating with a hammer are making wonderful articles that are not meant to deceive. I have many such pieces that I have commissioned. I have taken some items to local blacksmiths for their critique and always learn something.

[southernforge]

..... I am looking for those in the business to suggest fine details to look for. Those that copy/make old objects with iron stock purchased today and don't go to the trouble of beating with a hammer are making wonderful articles that are not meant to deceive. ....

Some ironwork made during the Arts and Crafts Period is identifiable by short-cuts that were typically taken during that time period. If you turn the item over and see jagged edges around holes that were punched through and at the same time see it as a reasonably well made item that the maker did not spend the extra few seconds straightening elements, and the metal is possibly not anywhere near the minimum to make the object, and the item looks Colonial in style, then according to what I was shown you have a set of clues strongly indicating that it is likely a reproduction that was made during the Arts and Crafts Period. Many years ago a smith gave me a tour of items that were on display at an Early Ironwork Conference that had been identified by experts as real Colonial iron. When turned over, those iron pieces fell distinctly into two categories. One category was items with jagged edges on the back of punched holes, nice Colonial design and execution, but without that last 15 seconds or so of straightening. The second category were Colonial style items of nice design, minimal iron used, nice finished holes on the back, and someone had taken that final few seconds to eyeball the piece and align it so that it was straight. Even to my then uneducated eye those items fell into two distinct categories.

I don't understand what you mean by

..... .... trouble of beating with a hammer....

. My humble understanding is that if an object looks like it was "beat with a hammer" i.e. intentionally banged up and dented, then it is a modern reproduction. Original old ironwork (especially pre-Industrial Revolution high end decorative objects) that was taken care of and properly preserved should look well-made and if that item made for the upper end of the market should not have any visible hammer marks. Some modern makers will leave some hammer marks so that customers can see that the item was handmade. Some other makers will take items that were machine-made and bang up with hammers to try to make the items look to the untrained eye as if it was made by a smith. Still other makers will cast or use machines to punch-out items ready-made with dents for hardware store chains. Hammer marks are more likely than not to indicate that the item is a reproduction.

[Antiqueman]

Some ironwork made during the Arts and Crafts Period is identifiable by short-cuts that were typically taken during that time period. If you turn the item over and see jagged edges around holes that were punched through and at the same time see it as a reasonably well made item that the maker did not spend the extra few seconds straightening elements, and the metal is possibly not anywhere near the minimum to make the object, and the item looks Colonial in style, then according to what I was shown you have a set of clues strongly indicating that it is likely a reproduction that was made during the Arts and Crafts Period. Many years ago a smith gave me a tour of items that were on display at an Early Ironwork Conference that had been identified by experts as real Colonial iron. When turned over, those iron pieces fell distinctly into two categories. One category was items with jagged edges on the back of punched holes, nice Colonial design and execution, but without that last 15 seconds or so of straightening. The second category were Colonial style items of nice design, minimal iron used, nice finished holes on the back, and someone had taken that final few seconds to eyeball the piece and align it so that it was straight. Even to my then uneducated eye those items fell into two distinct categories.

I don't understand what you mean by . My humble understanding is that if an object looks like it was "beat with a hammer" i.e. intentionally banged up and dented, then it is a modern reproduction. Original old ironwork (especially pre-Industrial Revolution high end decorative objects) that was taken care of and properly preserved should look well-made and if that item made for the upper end of the market should not have any visible hammer marks. Some modern makers will leave some hammer marks so that customers can see that the item was handmade. Some other makers will take items that were machine-made and bang up with hammers to try to make the items look to the untrained eye as if it was made by a smith. Still other makers will cast or use machines to punch-out items ready-made with dents for hardware store chains. Hammer marks are more likely than not to indicate that the item is a reproduction.

[Antiqueman]

All of these comments are very helpful and add to the list of clues to be pursued. Thank you! I have collected for about 45 years. Early on, the need to worry about repros was minimual because prices were low and antique iron was not highly sought. Time, money, and number of collectors has changed the demand side of the equation and the internet has changed the supply part of the equation. I always visit blacksmith shops and galleries when I find them and have never found these artisans to have interest in trying to duplicate an old item for the sake of fooling a collector. I have used a great deal of recent blacksmithed items for their utilitarian use and/or decorative or art value. I have iron railings inside and out, hooks, art, sculpture, all made by local artisans. Those items add to the graphic value of the antique work. I greatly respect the talent to fashion such items from such difficult material as iron and with such large, heavy, robust tools. Thus my interest. Those that are not familar with the Sorber Collection that was auction off by POOK & POOK in the last 2-4 years should look at the book that documents the collection. It is a wonderful reference book.

[ThomasPowers]

Note that styles and methods can be quite COUNTRY specific. For Example: I've seen a lot of rural 19th century french stuff being sold lately as centuries earlier items.

As you don't specify what country colonies you are interested it's hard to say if you are referring to the Belgian Congo or Brazil!

I have the Sorber book but it tends to not even cover all the USA colonial stuff as it's quite low on Spanish Colonial items from the American South and Southwest as I recall. (The town I live by was named by the Spanish about a decade before Jamestown was founded)

What I check for when evaluating an item: 1: real wrought iron. 2: forge welding where appropriate---if an item avoids forge welding then it's almost certainly modern. 3: style---certain times and places tended to use certain design motifs in certain ways. 4: Does the item show typical/expected wear and tear; while perfect items do occur they are much less prevalent than used ones.

And there was a rash of colonial repro's back in the 20's just like there are a large number of Victorian era repro's of medieval items during the gothic revival. I have smithing books from back then showing folks how to make such items.

[maddog]

Your interest in antique iron work seems very serious. I suggest you invest some time in learning how iron is actually forged. You dont have to become a blacksmith but some reading and perhaps even a short blacksmithing class or two will make you much more sensitive to the subtleties of a piece of ironwork. Once you have made a forge weld, it's not easy to be decieved by an electric weld.