JYH and press

[poleframer]

Well, a hammer in the making. I made the press last winter, has a 4" cylinder that moves fairly fast with the hydraulic system. I decided to do a rusty based hammer on it, had most of the parts around, picked up another flow control valve that will be used for speed control of the hydraulic motor instead of a tensioner pulley. The 2x bar for the hammer is solid, the anvil weighs about 250 lbs. Recognize the ford parts?

[Bentiron1946]

So, this is a hydraulic actuated helve hammer? Is it a dual purpose machine able to do function as both a press and a helve hammer? :huh:

[poleframer]

Umm, is the Rusty hammer a helve hammer? In another thread I wrote about being off-grid, and my electric system only goes so far. When I had accumulated a Parks 30" band saw, and a sebastian engine lathe, I needed some more umphh, so I added a hydraulic pump to the 14 hp backup diesel gen engine, and run a number of tools off that, plumbed in my shop. Nice thing with hudraulic motors is the smooth variable speed with flow control valves.
But back to subject, most of this stuff is from what presents itself for my use
I just got into having a forge as part of the shop scene, and saw that a hammer would go well with the H press I made, had most of the stuff was laying around to make this.

[Mainely,Bob]

I`ll second Sam and say I look forward to seeing it finished and on video.
I`m especially looking forward to seeing how the hydraulic speed control effects the overall performance.

[poleframer]

Ok, a little further along. The hydraulic gear valve kept spittin seals under the starting torque, so I got a used rotary hyd motor, spun at just 200 RPM full out, so I mounted it straight to the tie rod.
Made a linkage from a foot pedal to the flow control valve, control is pretty smooth, I can 1 hit fairly easily, or get going.
Tried 2 leaf springs, but it was too stiff, not enough of the "whip" motion, these are 3" wide springs.
Whapps pretty good, I'll get a friend to video it when I can.

[arftist]

Boy, this guy knows how to simplify things. Nice job!

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

He doesn't build "simple things", he builds complex things simple! He's up and running while others are still thinking about it. Good job!

[poleframer]

Hmm, took some video today, see if this link works, or do I need to open a youtube account?
http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww194/LogDork/?action=view&current=hammervalve.mp4

[poleframer]

another
http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww194/LogDork/?action=view&current=hammering2.mp4

[Mainely,Bob]

Man,you are truly a wonder!
Here you are off the grid and still coming up with new and better tools than most of us have on it.
The control using that hydraulic drive system is impressive.It literally stops on a dime. :o

[pkrankow]

Neat! 1 frame, 2 machines!

Phil

[ironstein]

Thats cool!

[poleframer]

Thanks for the compliments!
I like the control, that worked well, put the secone spring back on, but cut it back, it was a bit too "whippy" at higher speeds.

[Bentiron1946]

It's alive! So now you can get caught up on all of your forging projects and save your hammer arm for wood projects. Nice job on the hammer. :blink:

[poleframer]

Time to start on another powerhammer for a friend, he really likes the control of my hammer. We are going to make some changes of course, considering this one as a prototype. I'd like to pick your collective brains for ideas.
We plan to make more of a forging press in the design, using a heavy press frame for the backbone of the hammer adds both strength, and weight to the whole machine. We're going 6" wide, I-beams top and bottom, the forging press will be based on Randys design. We've been thinking a lot about changing the location of the driving linkage to something more along the lines of Sam's compact rusty, and I'm not quite seeing if the gains we want are there.
If you watch the second clip I have posted above, the whip action of the springs are quite apparent, I'm wondering how that will change by using Sam's configuration. In his sketch he has the drive linkange about a third of the spring length ahead of the pivot. What we're trying to gain is a little more control, I can sort of one hit on mine, but not with the force that I'd like. The control I get with the flow valve/hydraulic motor is pretty good, and that motor has lots of torque, but there's just a bit too much slop in the springs to deliver a good single blow, it would be nice to be able to one hit strongly with each push of the control pedal. The question is how much we're giving up of the additional force acquired in the whip action of using a spring.
I was also looking closely at John's (gearhartironwerks) new kinyon hammer, especially the way the air cylinder is mounted on the short spring. I'm thinking much the same, with a slightly longer spring, and again using a rotary type hydraulic motor and flow control valve setup. In this plan in the works, instead of the drive rod being all the way to the back, it would be on the post between the press and hammer, with the spring pivot somewhere on the top of the press, maybe about where the u-joint pivot is on my hammer. It seems that if the spring is too short, not only is there the loss of the spring whip, but also the forgivness to the drive linkage and motor that the spring gives. I think I can see how using an air cylinder gives the cusioning needed in John's application.
The anvil will be around 400 lbs, so we'll be making about a 40 lb hammer for it. We still need to see if his hydraulic power pack is up to the job of spinning a hydraulic motor, otherwise we'll be figuring out either a slackbelt drive like in a rusty hammer, or perhaps a air cylinder like in John's unit if his air compressor is up to it.
Oh, some stats on my system. I ran the numbers on it, and with the diesel running at half throttle (rarely need more) I'm pushing about 8 gpm. When I'm running the hammer, the pressure gauge just hits about 500 psi (it wavers below that as the hammer hits), so to run a hammer, you really don't need the kind of pressure that a press would take. I think a two stage pump would work fine in this application, in that it would probably stay at the higher flow rate in operation.
Thoughts? Any comments are welcome, we will be posting pics of the build as we progress. Oh, does anyone have a couple 6" short cylinders or a 8" that would be suitable for a forging press? His shop is just out of Grants Pass Oregon.

[poleframer]

Well, he picked up 2 nice cylinders at white city metals, 7" bore, 20" stroke, 3000 psi rated. Since they're tie rod style, we'll be able to cut them down to more like 12" stroke, so the height will be closer to Randys setup. At 3000 psi, that's 57.6 tons each, so looks like two forging presses are in the works. Have enough steel to do a 600lb anvil. I think having the mass of the forging press included will really help reduce overall vibration of the hammer.
The hammer shaft is 2"X4"x24" stock, after adding the tup and die for a 60 lb hammer, we'll be doing a UHMW guide, he picked up a dump truck main spring thats about 3/4" thick in the middle, should give a good whap driven with a hydraulic motor. Looking into a 3 phase power unit now.
Here's the cylinders, 100 bucks each, good score