Who's your Master?

[Mainely,Bob]

Southshore,

You would fit right in up here.That pretty well sums up what an owner of one of the yards or shops would come to expect if they were looking to hire a "Master Blacksmith".

From what I understand you own your own shop and have at least one graduate apprentice working for you.Do you consider yourself a "Master Blacksmith"?If not then what do you tell people you are?

[Timothy Miller]

I would not use the title unless It were bestowed upon me by some governing body like a guild union or trade organization. like I said earlier I wish it were a title I could earn some how and that had some real meaning to it. I consider my self a human being who has some competence at forging metal and other related tasks. I do call my self a blacksmith or business owner. I hate it when people call me a welder.

[Fe-Wood]

Ain't you kids got work to do?

[Nazelhammers]

After this beat down if asked in the future, I’ll just introduce myself as the metal mangle-err-extraordinaire. My thoughts on heat treating will be - heating metal and treating it badly. My treatment of metal to some could even be considered so rude it would border on abuse or cruelty.

[thecelticforge]

I had a similar thing years ago. I did the apprenticeship with my Grandfar as a teen. Then for several years, I after the Army, I traveled around the world with a backpack and hammer. I mostly worked odd jobs and for blacksmiths when ever I got the chance. That went on for over ten years. Then when I had the chance to blacksmith full time in my own shop, I took it. According to tradition, that made me a master blacksmith, that and the fact that several smiths told me I was ready to open my own shop. As, I stated before, according to tradition, master is the proper term.
There were some that did take issue with me putting the word master blacksmith on my business cards because either I had not gone to a "blacksmith school" or because Joe Blow the rag tag man at the feed store had different opinions than I did on different subjects.

Can I do everything as well as everyone else? Heck no! There are some things that I still have to work very hard at, such as symmetry. I even had an apprentice once, Jason Dingledine, had a huge natural talent for symmetry that was astounding. To this day, I still think he and some other blacksmiths out there turn out better work than I do, but that is okay.
I think my new shop is nicer that everyone's!

[bigfootnampa]

Big fish,small pond huh?
In the unions I used to run across "journeymen" who had worked one place almost all their adult lives.Got their training there and knew only what the hands at those locations had taught them.IMO they were "journeymen" only because they had stayed on long enough at that job and were pulling "journeyman" wage.Some of them didn`t have near the skill set of a third year apprentice and would have had a hard time pulling above helper rate if they went somewhere else and had to prove their skills.
Good for them if they can wrangle the money.There is also something to be said for committing a large chunk of your life to staying in one place or job.
Doesn`t make someone a bad person.Lucky maybe,but not bad.Doesn`t make them a "journeyman" either.

As to the "Master" debaters.For that sort of thing to fly by me I need proof.
I see Danger,David,Rory,Grant,Larry,Young Dylan,etc turning out work(thru pics with them in the pics)and speaking of that work in an intelligent and informed way so I know it`s their work.They are all xxxx good at what they do and it would be for someone way above my pay grade to hang the appropriate title on them.
However,if you show up near where me and my friends are working and declare yourself a "master" anything that`s an open invitation to be tested,even if you have a sheepskin saying it`s so.In the working world here in New England it`s NOT show and tell,it`s roll up the sleeves,get to it and we`ll see when the day`s done.

The only widely agreed upon "master" we have up here is someone you can go to to get the proper thing to lure marine animals either into a trap or onto a hook.She has made it her life`s work to know what the fishermen need and how it needs to be stored,prepared and delivered on time in order for them to get the job done.Her business,trucks and cards say"The Bait Lady".She openly agrees that she is a "master" at what she does and responds warmly to the greetings from the docks touting her title and heralding her arrival.

WOW Bob!!!! I have gotta tip my cap to a guy who manages to work in "Master" debaters and "Master Baiter" into the same post!! Aren't you an old navy man? I'd think you might've worked in "dismaster" (diss master?) or "master disaster" or even "dismaster disaster" just for good measure! What a thread! You just couldn't resist, could you? Me neither.

[Mainely,Bob]

Nope,never a swabbie.Army Infantry and Air Cavalry.
The reason for the Navy term is that a prior job was as a shipfitter building Navy destroyers.
Knew how to find the "Goat locker" and how to deal with the "Chief of the boat",the guy who REALLY called the shots.
I`ve also worked and trained with Navy and USMC personel(they dislike being called "troops").

[youngdylan]

WOW Bob!!!! I have gotta tip my cap to a guy who manages to work in "Master" debaters and "Master Baiter" into the same post!! Aren't you an old navy man? I'd think you might've worked in "dismaster" (diss master?) or "master disaster" or even "dismaster disaster" just for good measure! What a thread! You just couldn't resist, could you? Me neither.

Wow, never spotted that! Went staight over my head and my antanae are normally very finely tuned to that sort of thing. Respect!

[monstermetal]

Dont Feel bad YD.... It struck me on the drive home from the shop... I live 17 miles from my shop and often on the way home is when I have time to sort through the days events.... I was about 5 miles from home when BAM... She is the Master Baiter!....

Anyway.... Wish my brain was a tad quicker ;)

[Mainely,Bob]

Was I really that subtle?

Maybe the new meds aren`t screwing with the brain chemistry as bad as I thought. :)

[Nazelhammers]

I'm not even going to share my experiences while I worked for the Navy with an Army guy. You thought I was getting a beat down before all this. I know better!

[Mainely,Bob]

I figure the Navy has the USMC as a part of their arsenal and they also work as security for their bases.
If you can work with the Marines then working with the Army should be much the same thing.
I found there were more similarities between the Army and the Marines than there were differences and my experiences with cross training were all positive.
I would say that being in combat arms tends to narrow your focus toward what is really important but I wouldn`t want to upset any admin types here.

In my book,if you wear or have worn a uniform then you are due at least a little respect.
How little is up to each of us to decide for ourselves I suppose.

[bigfootnampa]

Nope,never a swabbie.Army Infantry and Air Cavalry.
The reason for the Navy term is that a prior job was as a shipfitter building Navy destroyers.
Knew how to find the "Goat locker" and how to deal with the "Chief of the boat",the guy who REALLY called the shots.
I`ve also worked and trained with Navy and USMC personel(they dislike being called "troops").

Oh yeah! I remember now! You are a "Master" Sergeant though, right? I guess this just shows us all what fools we would be if we tried to mess with such a "MASTER"! They don't just give such titles away in any branch of our military! I not only tip my cap but BOW as well! It is comforting to know that men of such wit and strength are arrayed against our enemies wherever they appear (beating them down as it were)!

[Timothy Miller]

What does any of this have to do with military or Vietnam. Not to diminish any of your personal accomplishments.

[Mainely,Bob]

What does any of this have to do with military or Vietnam. Not to diminish any of your personal accomplishments.

You lost me there Southshore.

[Frosty]

This is turning into a dead thread, boring dead that is. Of course that's just my opinion, if you're actually concerned about MY opinion seek counceling soonest!

To address what I THOUGHT was the original question but was obviously incorrect in thinking the subject actually had anything to do with the thread.

Who's MY master? The question will need some refinement to receive a meaningful answer. Perhaps that's the basic failing of this thread? I choose my patrons, not masters. If someone wishes to contract me to do a bit of work we talk it over and arrive at a mutually agreeable understanding, sometimes in writing. Even while I was employed by the State of AK I recognized no master as I demonstrated on a couple occasions the last when I transfered to a different section.

I willingly rent my time, short term, sometimes long term, but that's it, I rent my time and skill sets. I do NOT sell my soul. To those ends here is the basic understanding. So long as I'm in "your" employ you have the right to ASK me to ply my skills to your advantage. Some requests may require a renegotiation of recompense but I lay that out up front so there shouldn't be a surprise. Treat me with impunity at your risk. And NO I don't EVER threaten violence, vandalism, sabotage or any form of retribution. Unresolved lack of respect from above usually results in a job opening. That's all. Yell at me or call me names if you're in a hurry for that opening. Of course it's easier and I think smarter to just ask me to resign, I'll go quietly.

I don't know how many potential (yeah RIGHT, they're almost ALL looky loos!) customers I've sent to Sears because they want hand crafted for Sears prices. No umbrage, you just have to pay for what you get, it's no skin off my nose if folk want a $100 doo hicky, MY Doo Hickies cost in the $500+ apiece range. If I miss a meal because I'm overpriced that's okay, I can afford to miss a meal now and then. I'm always respectful, even when I'm kicking someone out. I don't get a lot of "You're lucky I'm offering you ANYTHING for your work." Or the, " You NEED MY business!" folk. Well, not as prepeats that is. I may like someone's business but NEED it? I haven't been in THAT position since I was maybe 12 years old when I was able to prove I could do a man's work. Father was absolutely right paying me piece work wages for acceptible, that's within specs, work.

Well, darned if THAT wasn't a pretty long reply for a thread so far off track. I must be pretty bored. Anyway, that's MY answer to the subject line question. I choose my masters and except for Deb, they are ALL temps.

Frosty the Lucky.