straw ash flux

[30cal_Fun]

I do not have much experience in bladesmithing itself, but throughout the years have studied the Japanese blademaking process meticulously. Books like "The craft of the Japanese sword" are a good read for subjects like this. And for specific things there is usually a good website explaining things, but one site can say one thing and the other one can say a totally different thing. The key is filtering out the info you need.

I think Basher nailed it exactly in his last post. There is no "one size fits all" and Japanese bladesmithing is different from western style bladesmithing.
And the Japanese use rice straw ashes for two other reasons;
Temperature control; to prevent over-heating/cooling of the billet as it put in the fire and when taken out by forming a blanket between the steel and the air.
Sparks flying of; to reduce the rain of sparks that the white-hot Tamahagane fresh from the fire produces when struck with the hammer, the rice straw ashes again act as a blanket to control a lot of the sparks flying of.

I could go on and on about why the Japanese use rice straw ashes and why it works for them, and I am sure someone else has a slightly different explanation as well.
but when Basher said "Japanese trained (Czechoslovakian)Sword smith" I could help but think of Pavel Bolf.
His website: jswords
On his site he has some VERY GOOD VIDEOS of his way of swordsmithing which is very close the the Japanese way. In his videos he shows well HOW AND WHEN HE USES RICE STRAW ASHES, here is a link to his first video: Part 1 of making Katana

Seeing it with your own eyes is always better than explaining.

Louis

[Richard Furrer]

I have read and seen some photos of welding with straw ash. I don't think I have heard of anyone actually using ash. I was wondering have any of you tried this. How is the straw prepared and then aplied?

Dry the straw for a day or so after cutting,fill a metal trashcan half full of straw and light it up, when it flames out crush the ash and repeat till you get a coffee can full of the stuff. If you wish to keep some of the active burnable carbon there then run a burn like preparing cotton for fire starting..place it in a metal can and heat the can till the straw burns up, but not completely...frankly the open burned stuff is fine.

From there you can dip the hot billet into it or shovel it on top when its in the forge OR do the wrapping with paper and clay (ball clay is fine...ask a ceramic supply store) and the straw ash.

The ash will not come into play till the steel is almost burning and then it will melt a bit and coat the steel.

As others have said oxygen is the enemy here, but so too is the oxide already on the steel..this is what the straw and clay help with by bonding with the FeO and reducing the O from the Fe leaving clean iron to bond to the next bit of clean iron.

I am not a particular fan of this welding style as it is close to the edge with the highest temps you wish to use on carbon steel, but obviously it works.

I have seen several Japanese smiths and they use borax...some do not do this in public as that is not what you "paid" to see, but it is indeed done...not ALL, but indeed some do. Borax is a lower temp flux and is rather aggressive with removing oxide and staying on the steel..not so with other fluxes.


As to welding in an open fire without flux....why bother or take the risk?
One day I forgot flux for a demo..I used crushed coral from the road I was next to (was in Florida)..worked fine. If I had a few fields of straw or rice and not much else then the ash from that would be good also (keep in mind that much of metal working is borrowed from other pyro-technologies such as ceramics and glass...who also use ash for glasses and oxide reductions and the like)
I feel there are enough pitfalls and challenges simply doing the work without placing stumbling blocks in the way...and keep in mind I smelt my own iron/steel and do a variety of other steel making technologies so I am rather well versed in creating challenges.

Ric

[number1001]

Oh Boy -- we are in this side of the world have not know how other do-it.  When I travel throught Japan, China, and Thaniland. I saw these people used what they have and what they don'ty have. 

 

You must understand that those smiths over there did not have the luxury that we have here -- so straw ash was a best solution and available  for them to use.

 

We are in America barely see a stack of hay straw -- so the idea introduced by someone on this forum is not dump and stupid as others think. Please do not insult this man -- Sharing knowledge is what we wanted here. 

 

I have noticed that some comments were full of red-neck. Don't ever think that you are better than other. Back then we look at the black people same as dog. Our current President is a black now. Does it change everyone mind now.

 

Sorry to make someone mad, but the truth is alway the truth from one mind and heart.

 

No one was calling the poster names, it was a misunderstanding one other person got and it went south from there. let it drop. Also hay is all over american if you are in the correct place, its rice that is harder to find

[Work With Nature]

Am a beginner,

But I think it is also important to add a paper cover in between ash and clay and you will see them do that for the swords. My guess is with only ever doing the clay once, is that the paper keeps the clay particles out. It creates a container as some have mentioned here. With my clay charcoal slurry I had some of the in between layers get gunked up with clay dust. Did have a hot enough heat and it did not melt any of the clay. The charcoal was all gone. Used termite clay.