What weld gives you fits?

[KYBOY]

I was just curious? are there any forge welds that still give you problems at times? It seems there is only one that still gives me fits if Im not real careful..Im almost ashamed to admit this but......A eye weld with mild steel Lap welds,jump welds and any weld with high carbon stuff seems to go just fine almost every time but when Im welding mild steel into a hawk head or something similar with an "eye" I have to be dead spot on careful or Ill have problems with the weld wanting to seperate just at the eye a bit..It drives me stark raving mad Welding a lot of high carbon lately and it has me spoiled I guess :P

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

All forge welds, I did okay at a friends house but come back home and can't weld a thing. Always resort to the wire welder.

[chichi]

Same as you, welding an eye for a froe or hawk or box joint on dividers.The very end is always a bugger to get closed. Advice appreciated.
Bob

[Frank Turley]

The setup for the weld is important. The loop end on flat stock has a "simple scarf" which is a forged bevel, the length of the bevel about 1½ to 2 times stock thickness. When the loop is bent, the scarf will be on top flat against flat, bevel uppermost facing the ceiling. "The loop droops," meaning that when hung over the far radiused edge of the anvil for welding, the stock length and scarf area will be horizontal and the loop will hang below the anvil face level. By setting up this way, you can begin welding with half-face blows, and you'll be hitting vertically. This will get the weld right away in that "teardrop pinch" area. Only then do you work toward and into the scarf.

Without doing so and with part of the loop protruding upward, the loop will be in the way of your hammer face, and you'll need to hammer diagonally forward, not a smart way to work.

When the weld is finished, the loop will be offset, but it can be made central to the stock, usually using a mandrel.

This is the same setup as for a forge welded hinge barrel, and the hinge barrel is purposely left offset after the weld. See the old book, Elementary Forge Practice" by Robert H. Harcourt, ©1917, 1920, 1938. 1938 edition published by Chas. A. Bennett Co. Peoria, Illinois.

If working with round stock, the simple scarf has a three-faceted bevel to a point. If you can envision a manufactured wire nail, it has four facets coming to a point. We're talking about three, so that the unbeveled side will have been untouched by the hammer. The loop setup is the same as described above. Again the loop droops, and the hammering is begun with half-face blows. You will need to SOR* once the weld is taking hold. I usually do that on the horn.
*SOR: Square; octagonal; round.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of blacksmith schools

[dablacksmith]

The setup for the weld is important. The loop end on flat stock has a "simple scarf" which is a forged bevel, the length of the bevel about 1½ to 2 times stock thickness. When the loop is bent, the scarf will be on top flat against flat, bevel uppermost facing the ceiling. "The loop droops," meaning that when hung over the far radiused edge of the anvil for welding, the stock length and scarf area will be horizontal and the loop will hang below the anvil face level. By setting up this way, you can begin welding with half-face blows, and you'll be hitting vertically. This will get the weld right away in that "teardrop pinch" area. Only then do you work toward and into the scarf.

Without doing so and with part of the loop protruding upward, the loop will be in the way of your hammer face, and you'll need to hammer diagonally forward, not a smart way to work.

When the weld is finished, the loop will be offset, but it can be made central to the stock, usually using a mandrel.

This is the same setup as for a forge welded hinge barrel, and the hinge barrel is purposely left offset after the weld. See the old book, Elementary Forge Practice" by Robert H. Harcourt, ©1917, 1920, 1938. 1938 edition published by Chas. A. Bennett Co. Peoria, Illinois.

If working with round stock, the simple scarf has a three-faceted bevel to a point. If you can envision a manufactured wire nail, it has four facets coming to a point. We're talking about three, so that the unbeveled side will have been untouched by the hammer. The loop setup is the same as described above. Again the loop droops, and the hammering is begun with half-face blows. You will need to SOR* once the weld is taking hold. I usually do that on the horn.
*SOR: Square; octagonal; round.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of blacksmith schools

this is a area ive had problems with also ... could you possably post a picture or 2 of the setup your talking about? i dont quite understand it but think a picture would help a lot!

[Frank Turley]

this is a area ive had problems with also ... could you possably post a picture or 2 of the setup your talking about? i dont quite understand it but think a picture would help a lot!

dablacksmith,
TRUE CONFESSIONS. I am an old timer who has been sending and receiving e-messages for almost 10 years, but I am still a computer rookie. I have a new, small digital camera and I have loaded photos, but I've never sent any. Don't hold your breath, but I will try to get to the shop and capture some eye and barrel weld setups. Then I will try to follow the IFI Administrator's directions on how to post.

Frank Turley

[Frosty]

Great description Frank, got it in one!

I've never had much problem with an "eye" weld but I've been doing it a more labor intensive differently, I'll be doing it your way next time and maybe from then on.

I have the most trouble with butt welds on smaller dia stock, say 3/8" and smaller.

What's worked best for me is to place a backer across the fire with one piece against it and it's other side in the fire. The other piece to be welded is then warmed and fluxed and placed in contact with piece #1. When it reaches welding heat a gentle tap on piece #2's back end usually does the trick. Not right I know but I'm coping. . . Sort of.

Drop tong weld? Isn't that why the good lord made us smart enough to invent the welder? I mig tack em myself so I don't need tongs at all. Of course that's just me.

Frosty the Lucky.

[KYBOY]

Welding the eye seam with half face blows! brilliant Frank Thanks