old crusty lathe that I got real cheep.

[theycallmefix]

let me first admit that I know nothing about lathes.

I found this one at a flea market for $40 bucks and it was rusted up solid. A few minutes with some PB blaster and it broke loose and started turning. The bed even came pretty clean (mostly surface rust).

I need a tool post for it, and I need to work out some kind of motor attachment (new pulley for the head), it also will probably need new bearings, but It will probably get me along well enough to determine whether I will actually use a lathe in my shop or not. If it works and I use it I will likely replace it with a newer one.

The patent date on it is 1921 and it is an Elmco (electric machine corporation out of Indianapolis Indiana). It appears to be some kind of automotive lathe.

I'd be interested in any info you guys can give me on this thing. I figure that If it even amuses me for a few weekends it will be worth the $40 bucks I paid for it.

I'm interested in what the original drive would have looked like. The hand wheel on the side of the head would have adjusted the speed by moving the rubber wheel inside. I'm picturing a drive plate that ran against this wheel similar to an old Snapper lawn mower, but sure would like to see one all together and working.

Thanks
Fix

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Wow, interesting machine. Looks to be a special purpose machine like for turning armatures or something. Strange elevated tool post. I can't tell what is going on at the other end of the spindle, something different. You might be able to put a step pulley on the drive or a flat belt and a vfd drive. Have fun.

[theycallmefix]

I was considering a step pulley, right about where that wheel is. That's a large shat though, and I'd probably have to do some customizing. I was also wondering about a variable speed motor and just a flat, or v belt pulley.

I got the ways all cleaned up with some steel wool, but I still cant get the chuck to come loose. The part you see in the chuck is a 15/16 socket and adapter (I have no idea why) and it came out of the chuck with very little persuasion, but as of yet the chuck is still frozen solid. I'm thinking of trying a little heat. Is there anything in the chuck that can't stand the heat of a propane torch?

The little tool post elevations are interesting, and there are two of them, one on each side of center. When you turn the handle to adjust one the other moves as well. One way brings both closer and the other way spreads them apart. The back one had what I can only explain as an old model A jack post in it (including the bumper foot). I'll try to get pictures of it if you're interested.

Do you think that a standard tool post will fit? It only came with the little turret looking thing (for cutting inside things I'm guessing since I have some tools that fit into it), but I will have to put a tool post on it eventually.

At any rate, It's kept me amused for about half a day so far. A few more days and I will have gotten my money's worth.

[theycallmefix]

Oh, and that thing on the other end of the spindle, is a set of gears. I assume it was for an RPM gauge. It's very similar to an old RPM gauge you might find on an older car transmission, or on a tractor. I'm thinking of attaching an old motorcycle RPM gauge to it just to see how close it comes (plus it would look pretty neat).

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Try to loosen it with penetrating oil first. Be interesting to find out what special purpose it was built for. So it is some kind of self-centering whatsit on the saddle, huh?

[arftist]

What Grant said. I found an old Tom Thumb pipe threader that had a 3 jaw scrolling chuck on it. It had been outside for years and was rusted solid. I freed it up somehow, without heat. Keep putting the PB blaster to it, and tap around the chuck LIGHTLY with a very small hammer. It will come free. It is a nice little lathe. Probably just big enough to make the tooling you need. If you can find an old machine transmission, like a UNI-Drive or a Drive All, then you wood just have to fit one pulley to the shaft. At one time, machine transmissions were faily common.

Edited September 7, 2009 by arftist

[theycallmefix]

Interesting idea. There is another flea market in a week or so, perhaps I will get lucky and find a machine trans this time. I'll already be looking for a tool post anyway.


I've attached some pictures of the attachment it had installed when I got it. It's basically a large threaded rod with a foot at the bottom. The only thing I can think is that it might have held a spool of wire or something. The round hand nut near the top spins down as if it might have controlled tension or something.

I've tried a web search and can't find anything on this lathe or even on the company. I would really like to know more about it. Are there any other sources I could look into?

Sorry about the quality of the pics. I took them with my cell phone.

Edited September 7, 2009 by theycallmefix
pictures

[arftist]

There are so many ways machines (especialy lathes) can be set up, it is dificult to guess what that rig is for. I had an old freind who remarked that a blacksmith spends his whole life making tools and fixtures to save time, do a better or faster job, then when he dies, someone comes along and says what is all this stuff and throws it all away. As far as info on your lathe, you could google a patent, or try one of the yahoo groups that specialize in machinists or lathes.

[theycallmefix]

Funny you mention that. The first thing all of my friends asked when they saw it in my truck was, "what is it?" and "what does it do?". I would have thought that a lathe was easily identifiable, but I was wrong.

I guess no one fixes anything now days. So tools become a mystery to them.

I'll try looking up the patent. If that fails I'll look into some of the lathe groups.

Thanks
Fix

[Chrispy]

theycallmefix,
Old worthless lathes with a few minor modifications make excellent cold twisting machines. fit up with a 4 jaw chuck and modify the tail stock to accomodate 1 of several stock size holders that allow your stock to pass through the tail stock and twist away to your hearts content. You will find it more accurate to rotate the chuck by hand as unbraked motors tend to run on.

[arftist]

theycallmefix,
Old worthless lathes with a few minor modifications make excellent cold twisting machines. fit up with a 4 jaw chuck and modify the tail stock to accomodate 1 of several stock size holders that allow your stock to pass through the tail stock and twist away to your hearts content. You will find it more accurate to rotate the chuck by hand as unbraked motors tend to run on.

First of all, that is not an old worthless lathe. It is quite capable of making blacksmith shop tooling.

Second, it is far to small and light to do any significant twisting. A pipe threader is better suited for twisting anyway. A large gear head lathe as opposed to a belt drive make does make any adequate twister.

[ptree]

I am guessing the attachment is for spring winding. I am guessing that the lathe was a specialty lathe for turning bushings, think front end kingpin type axles. That would explain the what appears as an odd tool post. The round tool positions indicate boring bars to me.

[theycallmefix]

ptree: I did actually get some boring bars that fit into that turret tool rest, so I'm pretty sure your right about that part. I think you might be right about the bushing part as well. Which is funny, because part of the reason I wanted it was to turn some bushings for an old Indian engine I have (when you can't buy the parts, you just have to look into making them).

I intend to use it as a lathe. I know the accuracy won't be up to par with one of the new models, but I'm not expecting to do anything that requires that kind of accuracy anyway.

I already have some practice projects lined up for it once I get it spinning again. A lot of the handles are broken on the lathe, and I figure I might as well practice by making new ones. It would also give me a chance to see how well it's going to work before I invest a bunch of money and time in it. Not that simply being amused with more rusty stuff is not a good investment.

Fix

[theycallmefix]

I put a little persuasion into that chuck (brass hammer) and it didn't turn, but it did come loose from the spindle. I then put it in a vise where I put a little more persuasion into it and managed to get it apart so I could clean it up.

This is gonna sound funny to a lot of you guys, but i panicked a bit for a moment. When I reassembled the chuck it didn't close up all the way. One jaw was always one tooth out. I figured out that they have to go back in the right order, and now everything is just fine.

Now, where to find a motor, pulley, and one of those nifty tool transmissions.


I'm very close to being $40 dollars worth of amused with this purchase, which is good since it looks like I'll need to buy more parts for it.


Fix

[pkrankow]

Some lathes have "soft jaws" which are a lead alloy and will melt before showing heat.

Better to play with the penetrant.

Phil

[theycallmefix]

Update on the old crusty lathe.
It isn't as crusty now, and I will be selling it. I just bought an Atlas.
I did get the lathe working. Believe it or not I talked to the guy I bought it from and he mentioned that he had the original motor for it. He never brought the motor because it was so heavy, and it had been rained on in the shed.
I bought the motor from him, complete with the friction plate that matches the lathe. The motor had been rained on, but it wasn't rusty. I poured the water out, added some oil and let it set for a few days. I plugged it in with fingers crossed and it spun perfectly, it even has a reversing switch. The motor alone weighs sixty pounds.

So, now the lathe works (It needs a new friction wheel, and I never got around to fixing the handles) but I don't have room for both. I thought that since you all were so nice and free with the advice, I would mention that the lathe would be up for sale here first.

I added a face plate to the lathe, and did turn several parts on it, but the gears and feed on the Atlas are just so much better.

I can get up top date pictures if anyone is interested. And I found a ton of information about the maker from the patent information. It is a very cool lathe. It's just too big to keep.

Thanks for the info, I paid $40 for the lathe $30 for the motor and a bit more for some extra bits to go with he lathe, but I completely feel like it was money well spent, I've learned a lot just by playing with this thing.

[Swamptroll]

ptree: I did actually get some boring bars that fit into that turret tool rest, so I'm pretty sure your right about that part. I think you might be right about the bushing part as well. Which is funny, because part of the reason I wanted it was to turn some bushings for an old Indian engine I have (when you can't buy the parts, you just have to look into making them).

I intend to use it as a lathe. I know the accuracy won't be up to par with one of the new models, but I'm not expecting to do anything that requires that kind of accuracy anyway.

I already have some practice projects lined up for it once I get it spinning again. A lot of the handles are broken on the lathe, and I figure I might as well practice by making new ones. It would also give me a chance to see how well it's going to work before I invest a bunch of money and time in it. Not that simply being amused with more rusty stuff is not a good investment.

Fix

Just remember that machine accuracy and operator accuracy are not the same, a good operator that knows his machine can do great things

[fciron]

That thing in the tool post position looks like an Armstrong boring bar holder. If you get it cleaned up it might be worth a couple bucks or worth using on your atlas.

That's a cool looking lathe, Looks taller than most that would fit on a tailgate. What is the swing?

[theycallmefix]

That round thing is a boring bar holder, and it works pretty well. I'll be keeping it for the Atlas, but I need to make a new bottom, as it wont fit into the smaller t slot on the Atlas.

The swing on the lathe is pretty large. I'd have to measure again to be completely accurate (I'm not near the lathe at the moment) but it's something weird like 13 1/2 inches if I recall correctly.

I have the actual measurements at home, but not with me. I'll see if I can get them up.

The lathe could still use bearings, as it makes a bit of noise when spinning, but all in all, it's pretty cool to see it running.