Koutetsu Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hey guys. Newbie here, so speak Simply. I am building a permanent forge in my back yard, which will also do some service as a toolshed. I am new to this, and most of my knowledge on forge mechanics and workings has come from the site Beautiful Iron. Is this site trustworthy? It seems very knowledgable, but i would like to get some second opinions. My building will be 20' x10', and I am building a double forge, as several of my friends are helping me in the construction in exchange for forge time. I am going with a brick forge and chimney, with a partially paved dirt floor. Please, i am in need of advice. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Koutetsu, welcome to I Forge Iron You pose a couple of interesting questions, and I would be willing to give you my opinion! In response to your question when you said: ”Is this site trustworthy? It seems very knowledgable, but i would like to get some second opinions.” My opinion: I feel this site is trustworthy. But, just like many other sites where thousands of people give their opinion, some of their opinions seem to be out in left field at times and I would not trust them! I feel it is up to you to do your homework like it seems you have been doing to make sure that any information given on this site or any other site is something that you are willing to buy into and accept the consequences if the information is incorrect. You will be the final authority of using any information found. The good news is that we have an open forum here at I forge Iron. It seem as though there is a healthy exchange of opinions at times. If something seems un-safe or is absolutely incorrect, we have members (and management) here with a vast amount of experience that will stand in and make a correction if necessary. You have asked a question and wanted an opinion. You received an opinion. That is exactly how this site works. So I would have to believe that this site is trustworthy based on your willingness to make sure the information is correct!! You said that:”My building will be 20' x10', and I am building a double forge, as several of my friends are helping me in the construction in exchange for forge time.” I am dealing with a small building (forge station) issue at this time my self (only 14’ x 7’). I am adding on so it will now be approximately 14’ x 14’. So here we go!! This is just my opinion mind you!! The 20’ part of it sounds good for just getting started. The 10” depth or width is just barley acceptable for effective use in my opinion. And that has a lot to do with bending long lengths of stock. Good Building and Smithing to You. Ted Throckmorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Koutetsu: That site has a wealth of information on many topics. However, I would have to say that sometimes the author is a little one-sided in his opinions of how some things should be done, or built. Just my opinion, so take with a grain of salt. There is another website with a lot of good information, and sometimes the author comments here as well. Here's a link: How-To-Blacksmith-Index I've found this site to be very informative as well as the one you mentioned. A google search using different terms such as blacksmith, blacksmith shop, blacksmith how to, blacksmith association, forging, etc. will return countless results, many of which are full of great info. The key is to take all the information you can glean from all the websites and other sources of information, combine it, condense it, and use what works best for you, in your situation. That is when information obtained is best used. Good luck in your journey! Edited August 23, 2009 by keykeeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 ...... I am building a permanent forge in my back yard, which will also do some service as a toolshed. I am new to this, and most of my knowledge on forge mechanics and workings has come from the site Beautiful Iron. ....thanks! I have some of the web pages of BeautifulIron.com bookmarked for reference, but have not examined any of the pages with an eye for accuracy or opinions yet. As others have already said, each smith has their own favorite way of doing things, and opinion, so you will have to decide which way is right for you. There have been quite a number of discussions on this forum about forges and building them. By clicking on "Search" at the top of this page, and typing in the words "side draft" a number of treads on building brick side-draft chimneys were found including: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f85/side-draft-chimney-info-10563/ I would humbly suggest that if you are going to go to the effort and expense of building a brick double-forge, building it with good quality cast-iron firepots. Firepots are available from various vendors including but not limited to, Centaur Vulcan Firepot;this Centaur firepot is a good example of what firepots should be. Lists of vendors are also available online including: List of suppliers of tools and supplies I would also suggest building it as side draft, with separate flues at least 12inch by 12inch on the inside. A excellent example of a brick side draft double forge is Furnace Town Heritage Museum in Snow Hill, Maryland. Two forges can not share the same 12 by 12 flue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koutetsu Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Ted, when you refer to the size, how wide do you think i should go? I'm currently dumping fill to even out the area. Should i go with a square? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I would humbly suggest building as large a building as you can afford. A double brick forge by itself will likely be at least 5 feet wide and 12 feet long. Plus three foot space between the forge and the anvil makes it 8 feet wide. Plus 1.5 feet for the anvil, plus three feet on the other side of the anvil, comes to almost 13 feet wide. Plus a two foot wide table on the opposite wall, comes to 15 feet wide by 12 feet. Plus rack for iron, plus other tools and supplies. I suggest that you get a piece of paper and draw what you plan on having in the shop, and the "work triangles" for the arrangement of equipment. The last thing that you want is to try to fit an elephant in a tool shed. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 UnicornForge is hitting the nail on the head. My personal preference would to go to a square configuration. Here are some other suggestions on shop layout! Here is a URl to check out!Lytton Creek Blacksmiths Try this one also! http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/shop-layout-ideas-wanted-12757/ If you can possably spend some time with a good blacksmith and get a real feel for basic need and layout, it would serve you well! There are guys and gals out there that do increatable things with a small area to work in. Please consider ventalation also! I am so pleased that you are asking questions and developing a plan. I know that more people will give you some direction also. So hang in there until you feel well informed. Ted Throckmorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Koutetsu: Not to be picky but a "Forge" is the fireplace where you heat your iron/steel. The "Smithy" is the building and a more modern term is "Blacksmith shop" or just "Shop." I know it sounds like semantics and it is but it's not pointless semantics, it's important for everyone to know what you mean when you use a word and blacksmithing has it's own language. As has been touched on ask three blacksmiths a question and you're likely to get at least four opinions. No joke, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Okay to your shop. Another current thread is dealing with a much smaller 6'x10' existing building and how to lay it out. It already has a door and window which limits the layout even more. Fortunately the fellow wants to make knives so this much room is pretty spacious. At least sufficient. My point in bringing the other shop layout up is purpose. How large, the overall shape and how you lay it out are dependan on what you want to do in it. There used to be a fellow who made some very nice blades and his entire shop was set up on the 4' x 6' balcony of his 4th story condo in Fla. The entire thing fit into two duffle bags, two to keep the weight managable. So my question to you is, what do you want to do in your shop? If it's small scale work then 10' x 20' might be just fine. A 2' wide bench along most of one 20' wall. A 10' wide door in one end with open floor space for 6-8'. The anvil on the wall opposite the bench at the edge of the open space. The forge on the same wall 3-6' back. The post vise on the bench across the way. A second anvil for the second station 3-6' the other side of the forge. Quench tanks and coal bunkers built into the base of the forge. Tool racks and storage under the bench and in cabinets over the bench. An egress door in the back wall so if something BAD happens nobody gets trapped in a burning building. Okay, that's just an off the top of my head layout and very rough for it. There are any number of variations possible, especially if the forge is NOT a permanent masonry structure. I'd suggest building a steel forge that can be moved until you and your friends have gotten to the point you KNOW where you want it permanently. For a two station smithy wider than 10' would be much better for sure but it can be done in a long narrow structure. Some wonderful work has come out of surprisingly small shops. What I've found for myself is I prefer about 6' between the forge and my anvil which makes a largish work triangle. The upside is it allows several overlapping work triangles and much of my hot work tools are laid out in a semi-circle around the forge. So the things to ask yourself are: #1 What do you want to make? You'll need to allow for stock storage exceeding the project dimensions by some. A 20' building is perfect for this as you can use overhead rafter space for full sticks provided you aren't working large dimension stock. you can make a door in the end high enough it exposes the bottom chord of the trusses when open and stand in the back of a truck and just slide them in. Easy peasy. #2 Do you plan on being a hobby shop or pro? If pro you need to seriously consider the probability that what you think you're going to make a living at will not pan out so your original shop should be more generalized. Max open floor space and as many of your tools and equipment portable or at least movable. #3 Power and lights. You can NOT have too much of either, put 120v outlets every 4' and 220v outlets every 10' on every wall if possible. You'll want a selection of lighting too bright shadowless lighting for layout and assembly operations, and especially on the bench. You'll want dim but good lighting in the forging area. It needs to be dim enough to accurately judge color but good enough you aren't tripping over things. A number of portable spots on stands is REALLY handy. A couple windows behind the bench are good for both light and ventilation. #4 Ventilation is REALLY important. Any forge is going to consume oxygen and produce byproducts the most dangerous being CO. A side draft forge hood is your best bet for keeping smoke and other bad gasses out of the shop. However the best side draft hood in the world won't do a bit of good if you don't have enough makeup air coming in. A propane forge needs very good ventilation as they produce CO prodigiously. Shoot, I think the top of my head just ran out of juice. . . Thwok thwok. . . Ayup, nothing left right now. Opinions by: Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I might mention that I have 11 foot wide garage doors both front and back of the building, for access *and* ventilation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I've learned a lot from this site and in fact it has opened many gateways to me so that now I'm able to actually crank out a little bit. There is a lot of good info on here. I also recommend Purgatory Ironworks lots of good info on there for newbies and people just starting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koutetsu Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Frosty, Thanks. Learning how to talk like a smith is definitly helpful. This info is good too! Most of my ideas as to how big a smithy should be is based on seeing bad quality pics online, and pics from knifesmithing books by Wayne Goddard. Which I know see is unfortunate, since i don't plan on making knives. I plan on working on everything from farm equipment to medieval reproductions to artsy stuff. This will be in relation to my job, but not exclusive too it. Im studying art, and plan to go into sculpture/fine arts, but i have always been interested in metalworking and medieval history (usually a combination of the two). I had never considered having to store and manhandle bars about the smithy. THis location however, will definitely be permanent. The land is owned by my parents, and once i move on in two years or so, will be used by my brother, who is learning with me, or for storage. Today i increased the size to 20' x 15', but reading these comments, i think i need to go to a 20' square, or even bigger. I plan on making blades, up to armor, and other random things to be determined. Also, is there a thread just for smithy design? ive realized this might not be the best thread to post in. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 You might see if your folks will chip in for a two car garage on their property. They usually run about 24' x 24' give or take and they'll be able to park in it when you leave. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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