RcRacer Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I just finished making the flair for my burner yesterday so I fired it up to see how it works. The design is basically the "T" Jet ( Thanks Frosty ) with a mod for the nipple holder for the MIG tip. I have attached some pics. Please excuse the shop clutter and the photographer. Here's the parts before welding and assembly: The 1/4" nipple was plugged and welded at the end and then drilled and tapped for 6 x 1.00 Metric. That's the thread size for my Lincoln MIG. The MIG tip is for .035 wire so the orifice is actually a #57 drill size. The 1/4" nipple, for part of it's length, is turned down to 1/2" OD. I made the collar 1/2" so that I could use a straight 1/2" rod as a jig to hold the collar perfectly straight down the tube when welding. The MIG tip in the "T": The finished burner: I rolled the flair from 14ga. stainless and then TIG welded the seam. I made a pattern based on a cone pattern app available on the web. I drew the pattern using my PlasmaCAM CAD and the cut it out with the plasma cutter. Rolling and welding was an adventure since I don't have full use of my right arm ( yet ) and I am right handed. The burner is ... well burning The regulator was set at 8lbs and the flair was adjusted so that it extended 1.625" from the end of the pipe. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to fine tune it today and do some final leak checks. The forge will be constructed from 14ga sheet metal, shaped like a mailbox and have an outer dimension of 10 x 10 x 10. With 2" of ceramic wool inside, the chamber will be 6 x 6 x 10. I'm planning on having hinged doors on the ends with 1" insulation and openings of approx 4 x 4. I will post the progress of the forge as construction progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 It's hard to tell and you didn't say, what's the tube diameter and length? It LOOKS like it's a 1" tube, in that case it should use a 0.045" mig tip. Looks good so far. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RcRacer Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 It's hard to tell and you didn't say, what's the tube diameter and length? It LOOKS like it's a 1" tube, in that case it should use a 0.045" mig tip. Looks good so far. Frosty The tube is 8" x 1". The hole size in a Lincoln MIG tip is .043" in a tip marked .035. A .045 MIG tip would have a hole size of about .055". Should I drill out the tip ( using my lathe ) to that size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I'd just buy a 0.045" mig tip. Chasing out holes in copper with a drill bit is inviting the bit to break. Copper work hardens quickly and galls the bit breaking them. I use torch tip files to fine tune them when necessary. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RcRacer Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 I'd just buy a 0.045" mig tip. Chasing out holes in copper with a drill bit is inviting the bit to break. Copper work hardens quickly and galls the bit breaking them. I use torch tip files to fine tune them when necessary. Frosty Thanks, Frosty. I'll give that a try. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Burner looks pretty good. Sounds like a lot of work the way you made you burner flare.....but looks really good. Can't wait to see your finished forge. I like the idea of the shape. I think I will build my next one in the shape of a mailbox. Should make it easier to suspend the ceiling. (arched vs. flat) Please post pics when done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RcRacer Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 On the burner part of my project, as Frosty suggested, I used a larger orifice on my burner. I used my lathe to drill out a .035 MIG tip to .054" from .044". I also shortened the tip slightly and made the nose rounder. This gives me a little more adjustment in how far the tip sticks into the throat of the main tube. I also made a "pseudo flair" out of 1.5" pipe. I bored some gradual steps in it but it doesn't really taper much. The larger pipe essentially provides a pressure drop and helps retain a flame. I tested it from 4 to 10 pound and it seems to work fine. ( it's a lot easier to make than the stainless cone! ) Here's some pics of the burner running with the new MIG tip and pseudo flair. Here it is running at 4lbs of pressure: Another at 10lbs: The forge body is ready for welding. I still need to cut and fabricate the doors and the burner holder. The top was gradually bent in my home made brake: I bent 1/8" lips on the bottom to provide laps for welding because they are easier than edge joints when you haven't been practicing - Ready for cleanup and welding: In about a week or so I should have the insulating material and the main body finished. I'm still looking for scrap material to make the doors. If I can't find scrap I'll have to break down and buy some new sheet metal. That shouldn't really hold me up too much. I'll post pics when I get more done. Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 That looks like a nice flame. I'll be looking forward to pics of it in the forge. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I would go a little further and call it a perfect flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 The first thing I see from these photos is a blue ribbon winner of a flame. Let's take a minute and clap for joy; I mean that. You will not see a perfect example of flame coming out of any burner. Each design makes a different flame, but "best of class" flames do not come along every day, and running across a photo of one is even more rare. If any of you keep notes the last flame picture there is text book quality. The second thing the photos show is a really hot SOFT flame, which I have never seen from an air/fuel flame before; soft flames are slow flames, which is an important fact to keep in mind when you are building your forge, because you will get the most heat out of a forge that is a good fit for the burner design you go with. Finally, a close look at the burner shows that gorgeous flame is being generated from a burner with pipe parts that are slightly askew. This is VERY important for any of you with weak shop skills and few tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 That's another "obvious when you think about it" point you brought to the discussion. The longer the fire stays in the forge the more heat transfers to the liner and work. You can accomplish the same thing by pumping LOTS of flame through it but once it's out the door it's heating the shop rather than your work. It's changed one of my goal strategies and now I aim for as soft a flame as possible, happily the ribbon burner is almost ridiculously stable at silly low pressures resulting in very soft flames. The individual flames may be moving kind of fast to call soft but when the same volume of burning air fuel is spread over more than 12 sq", that's 19 outlets over 12 sq", it adds up to a soft overall flame. The new forge has evidently burned out the free calcium in the refractory to a good degree and isn't blowing such a giant orange dragon's breath. The problem I run into with the ribbons is how low I can turn the psi., it's beautifully stable to lower than my gauge will read, unfortunately there isn't enough air fuel running through the burner block to keep it cool so after an hour or two it backfires or burns back into he plenum and the T inducer, ending it's use till it cools down in a few hours. 2psi isn't enough coolant action even though the forge chamber was a nice bright orange. The amount of hang time for the flame in the chamber is pretty amazing. Heck two burners running 4 hours and a 40lb. propane tank didn't have a bead of condensation on it. Two 3/4" T burners would've had it close to freezing in 4 hours. If I have any point to make with this post it's this. It's possible to make too soft a flame. The flame MUST keep moving: enter the furnace shed it's energy and leave. Soft can be too much of a good thing. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I've got enough time in finding out about burners to have gained two Phds, with change, and am still learning. Most likely, ribbon burners are going to be a very long haul too. Me no go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Frosty wrote "That's another "obvious when you think about it" point you brought to the discussion." Thank you for that; it's deliberate policy, nowadays. I lean hard into the obvious, because that is the richest ground for making new discoveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Yeah, back to the basics and tilt my head the other way. My richest discovery ground is mistakes and failures. For instance my old variable geometry forge has a burner that'll melt the 3,000f split hard fire brick floor but it does it with brute force, it'll give you 1st. degree burn if you stand within 6' very long. I don't speak so highly about it anymore. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 This is why there ain't no such a thing as the perfect burner, nor the perfect forge. there is only deeper understanding of what goes where and why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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