Anvil Legs Idea? * Think Sand *

[Avadon]

So i'm soon to be welding up my anvil legs on my anvil stand and was thinking of what may be a really good idea. The legs are 5" x 3" x 0.25" Steel rectangular Tubing and ~17" long.

Each leg has 255 square inches inside it and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to fill them with sand? I was thinking of either making a metal plug at the top of each leg so I can fill them, or simply just weld the sand in. I would think that would take any ring out the stand, or an ring the anvil itself is trying to transfer to the stand.

Is this a good idea? Or is there something wrong with this?

[HWooldridge]

There is nothing wrong with your idea and it's fairly common to see someone who has cut down a 55 gal barrel to the proper height for a base and filling that with sand. The anvil is then placed on top of the material. If it moves about or sinks, it is simply lifted and re-leveled.

In your case, the sand adds mass and will dampen vibrations to a degree but it's more important to tie the anvil to the stand if you are trying to eliminate ringing.

[Avadon]

There is nothing wrong with your idea and it's fairly common to see someone who has cut down a 55 gal barrel to the proper height for a base and filling that with sand. The anvil is then placed on top of the material. If it moves about or sinks, it is simply lifted and re-leveled.

In your case, the sand adds mass and will dampen vibrations to a degree but it's more important to tie the anvil to the stand if you are trying to eliminate ringing.

So I suppose it will help some. Should I weld the sand in or should I make it removable? I can't see any harm in welding it, is there?

Do people ever make clamps to clamp the anvil to the base or is this something not necessary?

[HWooldridge]

I don't think it makes any diff whether the sand is welded in but like any pressure vessel, I'd leave a small hole in the top of each leg so it can breathe - 1/16" is enough.

I put cramp bolts on all my anvil stands. I build an angle iron base just big enough to fit the base of the anvil except a bit longer in length (parallel to the centerline). It's a little longer so I can drop a piece of flat iron between the anvil and the locking bolts to act as a spacer. Under the heel, I drill two holes and weld nuts on the outside. Two bolts go through these holes to touch the anvil, then are tightened to lock the anvil into the frame. This will kill almost all of the ring.

[Avadon]

I don't think it makes any diff whether the sand is welded in but like any pressure vessel, I'd leave a small hole in the top of each leg so it can breathe - 1/16" is enough.

I put cramp bolts on all my anvil stands. I build an angle iron base just big enough to fit the base of the anvil except a bit longer in length (parallel to the centerline). It's a little longer so I can drop a piece of flat iron between the anvil and the locking bolts to act as a spacer. Under the heel, I drill two holes and weld nuts on the outside. Two bolts go through these holes to touch the anvil, then are tightened to lock the anvil into the frame. This will kill almost all of the ring.

wow, i've never heard of this technique, do you have a picture of all that?

[David Einhorn]

I put sand under my main anvil and it just kept sinking. Pulling an engine hoist over to the anvil, to relevel it, every time I wanted to use it did not work out.

[Sweany]

here's a pic of my version of the cramp bolt. The bolt is on the left of the anvil stand

Blacksmiths Gallery

[Charlotte]

I put sand under my main anvil and it just kept sinking. Pulling an engine hoist over to the anvil, to relevel it, every time I wanted to use it did not work out.

I've seen the barrel thing done with old roofing shingles covering the sand and the anvil bolted to oak boards cut to fit inside the top of the barrel.

[HWooldridge]

Here is a pic of my anvil stand. You can clearly see the angle iron box and the cramp bolts.

[Avadon]

Here is a pic of my anvil stand. You can clearly see the angle iron box and the cramp bolts.

So those cramp bolts that go through those nuts, right? And their purpose is to lessen ring? They don't really pin the anvil down much do they? Or is that not even their purpose?

Plus what is the harm about welding up the anvil legs with sand in them. Is there an explosion hazard or moisture hazard with just welding them up tight? I mean the legs are never gonna get hot.

[HWooldridge]

So those cramp bolts that go through those nuts, right? And their purpose is to lessen ring? They don't really pin the anvil down much do they? Or is that not even their purpose?

Plus what is the harm about welding up the anvil legs with sand in them. Is there an explosion hazard or moisture hazard with just welding them up tight? I mean the legs are never gonna get hot.

Yes, the bolts go through the nuts and they do lock the anvil into the frame very solidly. You may not be able to see it but there is a short piece of angle iron opposite the bolts which is welded to the box and acts to trap the anvil foot so it can't rise out of the box. In fact, I move this assembly around the shop with a bridge crane and only have to sling under the horn and heel. The bolts secure the base to the anvil without it falling off - and the base weighs about 250 lbs.

The harm with any vessel that is not specifically designed and certified for holding pressure (like an air tank) is some level of temperature variation will build air pressure in a container and cause it to rupture so you always leave a small hole(s) so it can breathe. I learned this from an engineer who used to build high pressure freon systems. He would always put a valve or blowoff on any closed tank so it could be dumped to atmosphere - even if was as simple as a bolt threaded into a hole somewhere in the system. If you don't think the pressure is much, try purging a tank to ambient then close the valve and set it out in the sun for a while. A simple enough thing to do on your stand is drilling a 1/16" hole in each leg in a discreet place and be done with it.

[Avadon]

Yes, the bolts go through the nuts and they do lock the anvil into the frame very solidly. You may not be able to see it but there is a short piece of angle iron opposite the bolts which is welded to the box and acts to trap the anvil foot so it can't rise out of the box. In fact, I move this assembly around the shop with a bridge crane and only have to sling under the horn and heel. The bolts secure the base to the anvil without it falling off - and the base weighs about 250 lbs.

The harm with any vessel that is not specifically designed and certified for holding pressure (like an air tank) is some level of temperature variation will build air pressure in a container and cause it to rupture so you always leave a small hole(s) so it can breathe. I learned this from an engineer who used to build high pressure freon systems. He would always put a valve or blowoff on any closed tank so it could be dumped to atmosphere - even if was as simple as a bolt threaded into a hole somewhere in the system. If you don't think the pressure is much, try purging a tank to ambient then close the valve and set it out in the sun for a while. A simple enough thing to do on your stand is drilling a 1/16" hole in each leg in a discreet place and be done with it.

I see what your saying now with it locking the anvil in. Did you drill holes or some small indents for the bolts to sink into? Or is it just friction that stops the bolts from sliding down? Or is it just pinched so tightly that the stand won't fall from the anvil when picked up.

Yah I think i'll go ahead and drill those holes just in case.

[HWooldridge]

I used #8, 1/2" NF bolts and nuts. I also ground a heavy chamfer on the ends of the bolts and let them contact the anvil but did not grind detents in the anvil. It just pinches the h#$% out of the anvil in the box and won't let it come out. However, indentations would be a good idea.

[Avadon]

I used #8, 1/2" NF bolts and nuts. I also ground a heavy chamfer on the ends of the bolts and let them contact the anvil but did not grind detents in the anvil. It just pinches the h#$% out of the anvil in the box and won't let it come out. However, indentations would be a good idea.

Okay thanks, I think I will use this idea on my anvil as it seems quite sound.

[IdahoSteelsmith]

Adding ballast is always a good idea for anvil stands, and other equipment that tends to migrate around the shop. I build with moving in mind. Tubing stands or equipment frames that I want to ballast using sand, I weld in a coupler and pipe plug, top and bottom. That way I can fill and drain the sand, in case I have to go to a different shop.

I have a stand for forming-heads, and post dollies. It is 5"x5" and I have used lead 'wheel-weights' for ballast inside of it. In the future, I'm thinking of making a small mold, 4-1/2"x4-1/2" and 1" deep, cast a bunch of lead 'plates' that I can install in the stand. The used wheel weights, don't nest real well. There's a fair amount of air-gap to the piled up weights. A more compressed stack of plates would lower the center of gravity, and add more weight to the volume used.

Just my thoughts.

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith